Search billions of records on Ancestry.com
   

Carreg Cennen Castle

The Family History Pages of Gareth Hicks

 

Davies

Hicks

 

Scrap Book

Gareth's Help Page

 

 

 

"Carreg Cennen Castle, which is quite near to the small holding called Tirbach
where my Davies ancestors lived  from c 1852."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One Davies family

up

 

CONTENTS

 

 

Picture Gallery

Site dedication 

 

Cwmgors & Gwauncaegurwen homepage

 

 

Gareth Hicks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Site Dedication

up

 

This site is dedicated to the history of my maternal Davies family who, for the last 200 or so years from c1800,  lived mainly in the parishes of Llansawel , Llansadwrn and Llandeilofawr in Carmarthenshire and  the parish of Llangiwg in Glamorgan. Also, there is a significant Jones /Evans branch which originated in Bangor Teifi, Cardiganshire c 1800.

This is in general terms the story of typical hard pressed Welsh small tenant farmers  and ag labs who, in the last quarter of the C19, drifted south from rural Carmarthenshire to the "new jobs and real wages " to be found in the mining valleys of Glamorgan. Within a generation or two many of them came to wonder about their new life styles with its poor health and shortened life spans. But they all played the game of rugby,Wales prospered, perhaps life was not so bad. 

A hundred years on, the wheel has turned once again, there are no longer any coal mines apart from small private relics and some open cast plundering of the landscape. The jobs are now mostly in the towns and cities, the old mining villages are slowly fading away into semi-oblivion.
And rugby ? Ah well, .........................

 

Contents

up

 
Introduction The Anne John Bible
David Davies c 1800 [Mary Davies] Children of David and Mary Davies, Lanwen 
William Davies [Tirbach] 1826/7 [Esther James] David James
Children of William and Esther Davies John Davies 1859 [Margaret Davies]
Timothy David [Jane James] John Davies, Llansadwrn  [Susannah Davies]
William Davies 1880 [Sarah Jones] Children of William and Sarah Davies
Rees Jones (2) 1849 [Elizabeth Evans] Rees Jones (1)  1813/16 [Esther Rees]
Children of Rees and Esther Jones & Llwynyreos Benjamin Evans (2) 1810-78  [Rachel Evans]
David Jones 1771-1858   [Prisila] Benjamin Evans (1)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Introduction

up      

William Davies Tirbach is my maternal great great grandfather.

He brought the Tirbach name to Cwmgors with him from the small farm of that name which lay off the lanes between Llandeilo and Trapp in the parish of Llandeilofawr, not so far from Cerreg Cennen Castle.

He was born in the parish of Llansawel c 1826/7, we can't find a baptism entry for him and thus only know for sure that his father was a David Davies with no absolute certainty as to his mother's name; although I am fairly sure that we have the right one but without all the hard evidence required.

It is probable that they were non-conformists and many chapel records have simply disappeared.

The difficulties of tracing individual Davies ancestors cannot be exaggerated , it is the third most common surname in Wales as a whole after Jones and Williams. There are many instances of Davies marrying Davies which adds to the confusion.

Our first probable sighting of William is in 1841 as a 15 year old with his assumed parents David and Mary Davies at Lanwen in Llansawel parish.

He left home at some point over the next 10 years and next appears in 1851 working at Glanbrynan farm, in Llangadog parish, he was age 24, a servant.

His wife to be, Esther James was working at next door Llwynyrynn farm, a housemaid age 26.

They married in Bethlehem Chapel , Llangadog in November 1851 and from the children's births we know they were at Tirbach from 1852 onwards.

They were at Penywaun by at least 1881, so their Tirbach tenancy lasted for the first 25/30 years of their marriage.

Tirbach is actually in Llandeilofawr parish, is better described as a smallholding , it is shown on the Tithe map c 1840 , its exact size then was 16 acres 2 roods 33 perches.

The tithes payable were 2s 7d to the Vicar [for one third of the corn and grain tithes], 5s 5d to Dean John Parker [in lieu of two thirds corn and grain tithes], 2s 11d to the Vicar [ for one third of the other tithes], and 3s 6d to the Improprietor of two thirds of the other tithes.

The tenant in c 1840 was William James and the landlord was Joseph Galstone .

It is hard to imagine how William and Esther managed to raise their seven children at Tirbach. The land would only have supported a few cows and pigs, some chickens perhaps.

The evidence is that their sons at least left home for work on other farms at a young age, maybe the daughters too.

Anyhow, by 1881 all the children had gone and William and Esther were at Penywaun which is at the very top of Bryncethin Road, Garnant; the present day house is quite visible from Cwmgors village. They did have with them their adopted daughter Esther and grandson William [Edwards].

William, at the age of 54 , was now a colliery labourer, possibly at the nearby Coder mine. It is presumably no coincidence that their son John was also working in the Cwmgors area, he was a servant at Cwrt y Bariwns farm on the Gwryd mountain.

They simply followed a general drift away from no longer viable small farming units in rural Carmarthenshire to readily available jobs in the rapidly expanding new industy of coal mining which was most accessible just across the county line in Caegurwen.

By 1891, William is a widower, now living with son John at Llwynrhidiau in Cwmgors.

The three houses built there came at one time to be known as Tirbach terrace, the " family name " became Tirbach. William died there in 1901.

Both William and Esther are buried at Tabernacle Chapel in Ffairfach, Llandeilo which suggests that they retained a fondness for Tirbach and its environs; which also allows us to hope that their time there was a happy one despite the undoubted hardship of scratching a living from the land.

Tirbach still stands today, on a ridge overlooking Llandeilo town, it has been modernised but the present owners are able point out which ends of the house the pigs and cows used to live.

It is not far from Carreg Cennen castle, it is a very beautiful and tranquil part of the countryside .

There exists a " family bible " and on the flyleaf to the New Testament section is a hand written inscription;-

"This bible is given to, and for the use of ANNE JOHN, while she liveth and after her decease to be returned to the Church of Christ belonging to Escairdawe if none of her children be a member of the same........written May 25 1771."

This is quite badly faded, although still legible, it was written out again below by WILLIAM DAVIES TIRBACH dated 13 May 1852, stating that it was" now my property."

I have so far, in research terms, been unable to prove the connection between Anne John and William Davies Tirbach and indeed now feel that it is more likely that as her father was probably a James Davies then she was the aunt of Esther James, this William's wife. A fuller explanation is in the notes.

Researcher's note

I have been assisted in my research by my second cousin Gareth Morgan and encouraged by the enthusiasm of my Tirbach first cousin Glen Davies, my sincere thanks to both of them.

However, any errors of fact or opinion are mine alone.

Gareth Hicks

Devon, 1997 up

The Anne John bible

up

 

 

As mentioned in the Introduction, there is a bible in the Tirbach family which was given to an Anne John in 1771 by the Esgairdawe chapel. In 1852 William Davies Tirbach wrote in it that it was "now his", and, whilst it has yet to be proved by established relationship, it was assumed that it had been handed down to him in the same way that it has been handed downto Glen Davies Cwmnanthopkin, the current custodian, and direct male descendant of William.

Although to do so is my dearest wish, it has so far not been possible to prove any relationship between Anne John and William Davies for the reasons that will become clear as the story unfolds.

Esgairdawe is a small hamlet right on the Pencarreg/Cayo parish line, but not far from the Llansawel line too.The chapel building still stands although it is now lived in as a house, the adjoining cemetery is still in evidence.

The Independent church at Esgairdawe was formed in c 1755, its full history is contained in

Presumably the chapel gave the bible to Anne John in 1771 when she became a member of the chapel, I also assume she would have been in the 5/10 age range then, so born say between 1761 and 1766   (Too many assumptions already!)

In the Llansawel records in 1763 is the baptism of Ann daughter of John David, did she become Ann[e] John under the patronymic system?   It is very tempting to think so

Another twist to the tale is that on the 1841 census at Tyrbach,  Llandeilofawr was an Anne Davies aged 75 [she could have been anything up to79], said to be " independent " suggesting she had means of her own and was not "on the parish".

The head was a William James, his wife and children are also shown. Sadly, this particular census did not show relationships between the residents so we aren't given any clue if there was one in this case.

She was born " in same county ".

That James family were still there in 1851 but the 1841 Anne Davies is probably the one who died in 1842 at Pontgwladys, see below.

Our own William Davies arrived at Tyrbach sometime between his marriage in 1851 and " laying claim " to the bible in 1852.

Clearly, the big question here is " are Anne John and Anne Davies the same person "?

And if so, is there a connection to our William Davies? Or is the connection to the William James family, and/or to Esther James,William Davies's wife ?

It may of course be just a coincidence that both ladies' probable birth year ranges match pretty well but this is certainly a factor in the theory for them being the same person.

I have details of an Anne Davies who died in 1842 at Pontgladys, Pentre Llandeilofawr, aged 79 which makes her born in 1763. The certificate says she was the daughter of a James Davies, farmer.
The informant was a John James of Treiorwg which is near to Pontgwladys[Ffairfach] on modern map.

I now believe there is a connection between this John James [ and possibly the 1841 Tyrbach William James] with William Davies's wife Esther [James], this is fully discussed on the separate pages for the David James family.

However, the deceased's father's name does not match the 1763 baptism in Llansawel for " Ann daughter of John David " despite the coinciding birth years .

My summary of where all that leaves us;

My next approach to the link question is to wonder if the 1763 Anne daughter of John David, who could still be the bible Anne John, can be linked to the David Davies born c 1800 who is the father of William Davies Tirbach. Or,  if that is the wrong baptism, can another link be established?

This last narrative was not meant to be a " mystery tour " of unrelated genealogical facts, I beg the reader to take a deep breath and continue reading into the next section with patience and forbearance, matters will surely improve .........

up

David Davies 1800

up

 

 

The known facts;

William and Esther's marriage cert in 1851 shows his father as David Davies , farmer.

We have not found a baptism for William, we do not know his mother's name.

On various census returns William shows himself as being born in the parish of Llansawel, and his likely birth year c 1826/7.

Route One

Even allowing the assumption that William, and his parents, would be found somewhere in his birth parish of Llansawel in 1841, as opposed to any other parish, there were several possible families with David Davies as head, with a variety of wives' names, but mostly without a son called William born c 1826/7.

However, it was more than likely that a 15 year old son would have left home anyway.

There is no point in troubling the reader any further with all the machinations of my method of "deciding on the most likely candidates", suffice to say that it wasn't straightforward!

One key factor I must explain is " the Enock factor ", which is that William Tirbach *did* have  a brother called Enock .

It became known in the research process that an "Auntie Jane Enock "had existed in Cwmgors in living memory; our Enock had a daughter called Jane.

Also, that a William Davies, the crudd in Cwmgors, allegedly a cousin of my grandfather William, was a son of the same Enock by a different wife.
I also learned that William, the shoe maker, referred to Jane as his half sister.

It may therefore be understood why the following family stood out as the one to go with.

1841 census of Llansawel at a place called Lanwen, Llansawel, Glyn hamlet,

This David/Mary will from now on be known as Lanwen David/Mary etc.

Perhaps the reader will shudder in disbelief to learn that even now a new problem arose.

We found another William and Enock aged 15 and 12 on the 1841 Llansawel census !

This is the entry;

AND, in a separate building

Blaen yr esker is very near to Lanwen and I simply do not believe that there were in fact two sets of brothers [not that they needed to be brothers at Blaeyresker] of exactly the same age living so close. I have come across this " double counting " phenomenon elsewhere, it is the family historian's nightmare

One explanation is that because they were working on another farm so near to home then the two boys were popping home to mam quite often and total confusion reigned over "where they lived " for census purposes, it was the very first census return of its type as well.
I like it !

For me, the clincher is the fact that the Pentre Parr Enock's father was a David Davies, it would be quite an extraordinary coincidence if, firstly, there were two Enock Davieses of the same age in 1841 and, secondly, both had fathers called David.

So, the Lanwen family is the one for me.

For the approximate position of Lanwen, the 1841 census listing was as follows; Drefach, Castell, Tynewydd, Lanwen, Eskertithe, Eskercine, Llewele, Trawscoed.

Lanwen is not marked on any old maps I've seen but on the modern map there is a " Lan Ddu Cilwenau " which looks interestingly similar, this is NW of Bancyglyn and W of Cwmhowel.

In the book [copy at Carmarthen library] "History of Llansawel" by Fred Price [1898] on page 23 [in a section about the Methodists in Llansawel] is related an incident at the Calvinistic Methodist chapel in " the late 1840 s " where children are asked the question " Pwy yw eich bugail chi, blant bach ? ",  [ who is your shepherd, children bach ] one answered with the unexpected reply, " Deio Lanwen yw ein bugail ni ". [ Deio Lanwen is our shepherd]

The author explains all,

"Dafydd Lanwen was the shepherd 'par excellence' of the neighbourhood in those days.
He lived at Lanwen, a straw thatched cottage on the lands of Cilwena uchaf. David was never seen without some half a dozen sheep dogs at his heels.
He was well known from Llanybyther to Brecon "

On page 35 there is a reference to a James Williams " of Cilwenau-uchaf "in 1846.

Interestingly the occupant of Lanwen on the 1861 census was described as a shepherd.

This couple were married in next door Cynwyl Gaeo parish on 10 Dec.1823, David of Llansawel and Mary Davies 'of this parish', witnesses Wm Davies /Daniel Evans.

By the 1851 census the family were no longer at Lanwen, and the parents were not found anywhere else in Llansawel parish, nor in Llangadog or Llandeilofawr for that matter.

Two possible, even likely, entries for them are in Cayo parish;

You just can't ignore the Brynfedwen link, the exact house where Mary's parents lived in 1841.
Unfortunately, there is no Brynfedwen shown on the 1851 census, and in 1871 someone else altogether were there.

Bearing in mind the Cayo marriage, this Mary's birth parish fits in, and just as relevant, all of the 1841 children have almost certainly been found elsewhere, see their separate entries below.

We don't think either David or Mary had died, so a couple, alone, is what we needed to find on the assumption they had no further children after John age 3 in 1841.

There were in fact four David/Mary Davies couples in Cynwyl Gaeo in 1851 but the other three have been variously discounted.

David's age in 1851 is 2 years out from the 1841 census but the latter " rules " required ages to be rounded down to the nearest 5, so no problem as such.

It is a bigger problem that his birth parish varies from Llanybyther,CMN to Llanwenog,CGN !

Is it possible that the 1851/61 couples are not the same people?
Surely not.

Will the real David Davies step forward ?

So, we now have a choice of birth parishes.

If we follow the 1851 census route with David aged 52 at Bryntelych then we would expect to find his baptism in Llanybyther parish c 1799. This isn't really complicated by the fact that Lanwen David said he was " of Llansawel " on his 1823 marriage entry, he could have simply moved parish after all, and his shepherding activities seemed to cover an extensive area.

These are the David Davies baptisms found in period 1797/1800 in the Llanybydder records;

I favour the two entries in 1798, it is quite tempting to pick on James/Mary as the ones since Lanwen David may well have had a first born son  - named James after his grandfather (see more on this under the  Children section below). The tradition even holds good if William Tirbach was the second son named after his mother's father [who I later theorise was indeed a William], and of course William Tirbach had a son called James !
Are we all convinced ? Hmm......

Taking this a step further then, on a Marriage Index for Carmarthenshire there are only two likely James/Mary Davies marriages pre 1798;

No direct Llanybydder connection here, it would be tempting to follow the Llansawel link but the fact that Lanwen David would have been born when assumed mother Mary aged c 44 [even if she married at 16], or even nearer 50,  that may be thought something of a hurdle.

Just to keep " all the balls in the air ", there are several marriages in Carmarthenshire "in period " for a James David to a Mary but there is only one that stands out ;

This could link in to the July 1798 baptism in Llanybydder for David with parents James/Mary .

I found no other James Davies on the 1841 Llansawel census apart from the Foesgotta James Davies (see below re Foesgotta)

It is not impossible that the above James might be the Foesgotta James although he would have had to have been married previously to the 1805 marriage to Jane, and his age [ born c 1780] makes this only just viable. Perhaps both James and Mary were only 16 when they married ?

Not very convincing, especially as Foesgotta James was born in Llansawel, but the parish border was so near........

Reverting back to Anne John, and/or to the 1763 baptism for "Anne dau of John David ".
On the James Index there is no likely marriage c 1780+ for an Ann[e] David or Davies but there is a marriage in Llansawel for an Anne John in 1792 to David Davies[St Peters] , it does seem late in the day for our Anne who would have been nearly 30 on marriage?

However, perhaps we should follow the Llanwenog, Cardiganshire birth parish route as per the 1861 census entry?

As I said at the outset of the David Davies section of this story, I have not yet managed to prove any link between Lanwen David and Anne John.

Perhaps a reasoned interpretation of the known facts could well produce the assumption that Lanwen David's father was a James Davies. Unless he was born in Llanwenog...........

It is certainly a case of " too many Davieses spoiling the broth ".

A Foesgotta connection , or not ?

A possibility of a family link to the Davieses at the Foesgotta farms is tempting to consider.

William & Enoch were at Blaenyresker  in 1841 and possibly John at Rhyglyn in 1851. (both Blaenyresker and Rhyglyn being Foesgotta family farms apparently)

Two of the 1851 Foesgotta family census entries;

Are the Lanwen David [of Llansawel on marriage entry] and the James Davies [born Llansawel] of Foesgotta related ? Although there is the probability that Lanwen David was born in Llanybyther. Or is a possible connection  with James's wife Jane [ Pencarreg]?

There is a similarity of children's names running through both families.

Whatever, no baptism was found in Llansawel for James Davies in 1779/83, [although Llanybydder is yet to be searched for him] so no link so far made between the Lanwen and Foesgotta Davieses.

 

Mary Davies, wife of 'David Lanwen'

The Lanwen couple were married in Cynwyl Gaeo parish in 1823 , her maiden name was also Davies she was " of this parish " and presumably born there.
One witness at Mary's wedding was a Wm Davies

Son John's birth cert also confirms her maiden name as Davies.

On the Cynwil Gaeo Marriage Index at Carms RO is a marriage for William David and Elinor Morgan in 1786
Assuming aged 20 at marriage this would have them born c 1766.
Now know Elinor aged 82 on death cert in 1846 = birth year 1764
William aged 86 on death cert in 1856 = 1770 and aged 83 on 1851 census =1768.
Making him  16 /18 in 1786 and her 22, not impossible

Frustratingly, we find another marriage in the Conwyl Cayo records

This makes the parentage of all post 1794 baptisms difficult,  wonder whether "our" William David was known as William David Wiliam John (see below) in order to avoid confusion

 

BUT       

The next entry is also Troedyrhiw Isaf again (perhaps same house, different household)

The daughter Anne's death certificate states  - Anne Williams, 58 daughter of William Davies, mason, died November 1862.  There’s no record of Anne ever marrying

The death cert details for William Davies; -  mason, 86, died July 1856 in Maescastell, Conwyl Cayo (a mile from where Troedyrhiw was).
Death cert details for Eleanor; - died in Brynfedwen in March 1846, aged 82, with William Davies present at the death.

 

Baptisms in the C/Gaeo P/reg  to a William David in period 1789/1800 [many illegible entries]

 

Items 3, 6, 7 & 8 have the " mason " reference, presumably same Wm David

No 3 could be Mary Davies of Lanwen - although a bit of a stretch since  she was shown as aged 40 in 1841 census; a Wm David witness at her 1823 marriage, her maiden name Davies on son's birth cert.

It is likely that this John (7) is the one at the 'other' Troedyrhiw Isaf in 1851, aged 47, also a mason  (I have a contact who descends from  this John Williams)

And the Anne (8) is likely the Anne Davies/Williams at Brynfedwen/Troedyrhiw Isaf in 1841/51

Apparently patronymics  are involved with the Davies/David/Williams name variants - although surprising to see patronymics alive and well as late as this, but quite possible nevertheless, it is a fairly rural neck of the woods after all.   But it's odd to see William David as Williams in 1851 since his full patronymic name would appear to be William ap David ap William ap John.

 On Old-maps Brynfedwen is at 264817,240031, just west of Pumpsaint. Shown on modern streetmaps, although un-named, between Penarth uchaf and isaf.

 

This is a possibility for Eleanor's baptism -

Her name was Elinor Morgan on marriage and her age at death suggests a birth year of c1764

In  Hanes Eglwys Annibynnol Esgairdawe, p22, is  a reference to the above baptism;

Rhydlydan is just north of Maes-troyddyn fawr in Cayo.

These further Rhydlydan bapts in the book;

There is a Morgan Williams listed as a deacon on p23, date unclear but possibly c1767

Reference on p89, in a section concerning The Rev Evan Jones, Crug-y-bar c 1823

p193/4, section re the chapel deacons, a list of some deacons who served 1690-1848 includes these two;

p197 a list of chapel members in 1828, includes

 

Caio church burials

Possibly they are the parents of Morgan Williams above and the grandparents of Elinor Davies Brynfedwn

 

up

The children of David and Mary Davies, Lanwen

up

 

 

In the Esgairdawe chapel register are these baptisms;

It is just possible that the above two baptisms are the Lanwen couple's first two children , they married in Dec 1823 after all , and otherwise William born 1826/7 would be the first born of those at Lanwen in 1841.

It is interesting to speculate that if James was the eldest son then a father for Lanwen David called James makes sense, see later.

Against that, we don't know of another Esgairdawe chapel link apart from with Anne John .

On the 1841 census, Crachthir has a Thomas Harries there. It is near Pistyllgwinni and Penygelli which are due north of Llansawel village, not far from Llanwen westwards and not that far to the east from Bryntelych across the nearby Cayo border [I think Bryntelych on the modern map may be called Froodvale].

William 1826/7, see separate page

 

Eleanor 1832

Penlan[Pen y Lan on old map?], is quite near to the Rhyglin /Blaenyrescer farms [the Foesgotta Davies family where William/Enock were in 1841].

She married in Llansawel parish in 1855, Elinor Davies age 23, she then lived at Foesgotta, father David Davies, labourer; to David Thomas age 24, ag lab, lived at Achetisa, father John Thomas, labourer. Witnesses Daniel Davies and ?.

Have failed to find them on the 1861 census for Llansawel.

This  is she as a widow  on the 1881 census at  

Her brother David also in Towy Terrace, Llandilo in 1881.

 

David 1835

Possibly him on 1851 census Llangadog at

Probably him on 1881 censu in Llandeilofawr; Towy Terrace, Llandilo Fawr

 

John 1838

Have his birth cert, born 21 Oct 1838 at Lanwen, father David Davies labourer, mother Mary Davies formerly Davies.

Probably him on 1851 census Llansawel

Probable sighting for him in Aberdare, Gla in 1881

And on 1891 census, not sure what his birth parish means but clearly same family as 1881

 

Enock 1829

No trace of his baptism in either Llansawel or Cynwil Gaeo.

See above for confusion as to where he actually was on census night in 1841

Interestingly, Esther James [brother William's wife to be] was at this same farm in 1841

When  Enock's son William born in 1857 he was living at Pentre Lodge.
The birth cert shows Enoch as a Railway lab.

His 1st marriage was to Anne Thomas in Llfwr in 1855, bachelor, labourer, full age, of Pentre Parr Lodge, father, David Davies, labourer.
She was also full age, of Pencae, father Matthew Thomas, cooper. Witnesses were William James and William Morgan.

Anne was buried in Llandeilofawr on 7th January 1857, her son William was born on 4th January 1857, it appears she died in childbirth.

Enock's second marriage was in 1860, shows him as a widower, aged 30 of Pentre Parr Lodge, a servant, father David Davies, labourer, he married Mary Jones age 26 of Danyrallt, father John Jones, tailor. Witnesses Thomas James & John Gwillim.

Wife now a Margaret, he was therefore married  3 times.

Pentre Parr Lodge is near Maesyquarre and Ysguborwen [Lewin Hickses ] on census, on map east of Llandeilo on Bethlehem road, turn off to Gwynfe.

 

Enock's children

 William, their only child, born 1857.

Most of the information that follows came from Myra Madge, William's granddaughter.

William was a crudd in Cwmgors [opposite old Rock Shop] as far back as Myra remembers, [she was born 1919].

He lived at 24 Gors St, died c 1928 whilst with Myra at 42 Gors St.
Ann,his wife, died in 1914.
Myra recalls a Mrs Parsons from Llangadock as his housekeeper, probably from 1914 when Rees, her father, got married.
William buried at Hen Garmel, died June 1928.

Shown on 1st cousin John Davies's [Tirbach] estate [ see separate page] in 1922 as owed £10/11/-, described as William Davies Boot & Shoe maker.

Marriage in 1880 at Tabernacle, Llfwr, age 24, shoemaker, living at Pentre Parr, father Enoch, to Anne Lloyd, 27. Witnesses Enoch Davies and John Thomas.

His uncle David Davies and cousin Eleanor Thomas also in Llandilo town, David  even in Towy Terrace too.

1901 census in Cwmgors

I don't understand the last name since he married Ann Lloyd. but maybe the ma in law had remarried?

The next entry on the census was Thomas Howells, tailor/draper, so looks like they already lived in the house next door and opposite the Rock Shop.

No sign of children Gwen and Enoch (below) which makes me wonder about accuracy of the data.

We have photographs of William/Anne, and also their sons together.

Born 1883, married to Agnes Morgan. Lived at 31 Church St Cwmgors.

Their daughter Annie Zena, still living at 31 Church St Cwmgors [in 1990s], married David Lewis and they had a dau Margaret

Born 1887, buried with parents at Hen Garmel, died in 1920 age 35.

Born in Llandeilo, he became Principal of Pontardawe Mining and Tech Institute in 1933 and for the 22 years prior, a Glamorgan County mining lecturer.
Qualifications; Min.Dip., M.E., FGS, MRST. Also a JP.

Wrote the book " History of Pontardawe and District" in 1967 which I have taken extracts from as the basis of a general social commentary to accompany the Davies Family History. He was awarded the H Worth prize in 1963 by the Geological Society London for his work on " the integration of coal measures"

He married in 1919 to Leonora Jones [1888-1976],  they had no children. My Mam referred to her as 'Nora Crown', her family had the pub in Park St, Brynamman of that name. She was an MBE and a JP too.   

See his biography on the Cwmgors a'r Waun site

Born 1889, died 1963, buried Hen Garmel.

Married Margaret Elizabeth Evans in 1914, they had daughter 1). Annie Myra [1919] who married Merlyn Madge and they had a son Roger.

Also a son 2).Raymond, born 1924, died 1990, who married Audrey Lewis, they had a dau Julie Annette

Rees was known as Rhys because there two other Rees Davies s in Cwmgors Colliery, including my uncle Rees Tirbach.

He was originally a fireman at the colliery, became the first Dust Suppression officer when new cutting machines brought in, in the 1940 s
 Myra remembers him completing his weekly reports in late 40s.

No details known of her at all, name from Myra.
(but not seen on 1891/1901 censuses)

He was in the Cavalry in the 1914/18 Great War, was gassed , and died in 1921 in Cwmgors. Unmarried.
(but not seen on 1891/1901 censuses)

 

..........................End of William's children ...............

......................... End of  Enock's children by first wife Anne................................

 

Enock's children, continued

I haven't investigated which wife was the mother of the 1871 census children, or looked for Mary's death entry. Possibly David and John were Mary's and Thomas and Jane were Margaret's, certainly Henery on the 1881 census would have been Margaret's.

David

Born c1862

Probably him on 1891 census at ;

John

Born c 1863

Possibly him aged 18 as a servant on 1881 census at ;

Thomas

Born c 1867

Possibly him on 1881 census at ;

Jane

Born c 1870

 Myra thinks she was born at Ffairfach - she lived at 17 Gors St, married Dafydd Jones from Treorchy, she died c 1955 age 85 [which agrees with this Jane's dob. Dafydd died same year].
Also, Myra thought that William Davies y Crudd, her Tadcu, referred to Aunt Jane as his half sister which makes sense as they had different mothers.

Henery

Born c 1872, unseen after 1881.

 

......................................End of Enock's children...................................

 

up

William Davies Tirbach 1826/7

up

 

 

As stated in the Introduction I have not been able to find his baptism although, for the reasons given there, have concluded that his parents were David and Mary Davies who in 1841 were living at Lanwen in Llansawel parish. He was then aged 15, working at Blaenyresker farm , near to Lanwen, in Llansawel.

In 1851 he was working at Glanbrynan farm, Llangadock for Thomas and Mary Jones.
He, William, was a dry labourer, shown as born in the parish of Cayo which is a potentially confusing fact ! He says Llansawel everywhere else though.

He married Esther James on 28 Nov 1851 at Bethlehem Chapel, Llangadock [district of Llandovery]  his address is Glanbrinan , Llangadog and hers Llwyn y van[? must be wrong, see above]. His age shown as 25, hers 27, both 'made a mark'. His father 'David Davies...farmer' , hers ' David James...farmer'.. Witnesses,William Thomas and William Jones. The officiating minister was David Jones, the attendant registrar was David Evans.

They lived at Tirbach from 1852 onwards as evidenced by the note in Anne John's bible and the birth of the first child there.

Census entries

Both William, who died on 29 August 1901, and Esther, who died on 17 June 1889, are buried at Tabernacle chapel, Ffairfach, Llandeilo.

Gareth Morgan has seen, and copied, the memorial stone inscription which refers to the fact that they both died in Cwmgors [Llwynrydiau]. However the chapel register states he was of The Factory, GCG which his dau Elizabeth's home, this fits with his will which says "of GCG, late Tirbach". The stone has now fallen.

As I speculated in the Introduction , Esther must have had strong sentiments for being buried back near Tirbach and perhaps it was because she was already there that her 4 grandchildren, with their father John Edwards, who all died so tragically in the White Hart fire of 1894, were buried next to her, or maybe it was where they themselves had worshipped.

One might wonder why Esther wasn't buried at Bethlehem chapel where she was married?

I also wonder whether her parents are buried at Ffairfach too? The chapel registers start in 1878.

This appears to have been a close knit family despite being geographically spread about Carmarthenshire and Glamorgan.

I have the following promissory notes which show that parents acting as bankers to their offspring isn't simply a C20 phenomenon.

As shown below, these family loans were mentioned in William's will dated 1898 too.

These details also suggest that in 1896 at least William was living with dau Elizabeth and Daniel at the Woollen Factory, Pwllywrach ,GCG.

His will also implies GCG, not Cwmgors, as does " late Tirbach ".

Last WILL and Testament of Mr William Davies [Late Tirbach] Gwauncaegurwen.

"I William Davies, Labourer, of Gwauncaegurwen, County of Glamorgan, [late Tirbach] declare this to be my last Will and Testament, do give and bequeath to be equally divided between my beloved children Mary Edwards, David Davies, John Davies, William Davies, Elizabeth Davies, James Davies and Henry Davies; all my personal and real estate which I possess, or be possessed, or entitled to at the time of my decease , after paying my adopted daughter Esther Jones the sum of five pounds lawful money of Great Britain. The present value of my estate being Sixty Pounds due to me from my son Henry Davies, and Fifteen Pounds due also to me from my son in law Daniel Davies. I appoint my sons John and Henry Davies sole executors of this my last will, and I hereby revoke all former and other wills, codicils, and testamentary dispositions whatsoever made by me at any time. In Witness whereof I hereunder set my hand this Twenty ? day of October in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and ninety eight."
William + Davies .
Mark witnessed by Dd. Morgan and Daniel Morgan.

 

See separate page for children of William and Esther Davies

Esther James

Have not found her baptism on parish registers in either Llangadog parish, which she shows as her birth parish on the 1851 and 1881 censuses, or in Llandeilfawr as shown on the 1871 census. It is likely therefore that she was baptised in a local non conformist chapel, she was married in Bethlehem chapel after all.

One problem which adds to the confusion about her birth parish is that the places Esther was at in 1841/51 are either side of the nearby Llandeilofawr/Llangadog parish boundary .

She was born c 1824/5 according to the census/marriage information, her father was a David James, a farmer.

On the 1841 census it is likely her at

The map shows a Treclai, despite being in Llandeilofawr parish, under 1 mile away from Llwynyryn, in Llangadog parish, see below.

Also, next door property is Carregcegin [where William's brother Enock was in 1851]

The 1851 census shows Esther in Llangadog parish at

It would be reasonable to assume that Esther was somehow related to the James families at the above two farms. That would presumably have facilitated her movements between parishes [viz Poor Law settlement]. The question is how and to whom was she related? See David James page below for an analysis.

Married at Bethlehem Independent Chapel, Llangadog 28.11.1851, she shows age 27, her address shown on cert as Llwyn y van [ which is presumably a mistake , see above] father David James, farmer.

Llwynyryn is quite near to Bethlehem chapel.

There is a photograph of Bethlehem chapel in the Bert Rawlins book "The Parish Churches and Nonconformist Chapels of Wales".

See separate page for David James

 

up

David James

up

 

His name taken from daughter Esther's marriage in 1851, he was a farmer.

As we have been unable to find dau Esther's baptism we have not been able to work out which of the several David Jameses in Llangadog or Llandeilofawr is the right one.

As already stated Esther's birth parish varies on censuses between the two.

The solution to the problem may well come from the research carried out in an abortive , and now probably disproved, attempt to link the 1841 Tirbach Anne Davies to the Anne John of the bible.

To reiterate, Anne Davies [of 1841 Tirbach with William James family] died in 1842 at Pontgwladys. She was aged 79 which makes her born in 1763. Cert says she was the daughter of a James Davies, farmer.

The informant was a John James of Treiorwg which is quite near to Pontgwladys [Ffairfach] .

Now the following census entries;

The only possible marriage for a David/Jane on the Carmarthenshire Marriage Index in period 1805+ is in 1807, a David James married Jane Edward in Llangain which is a fair treck from Llfwr

On the Llandeilofawr register is a baptism in March 1761 for a David son of James David and Ann of Treirwg.

Analysis

I am 99% convinced that the above  David  (son of James David) baptised in 1761 is the same David James shown at Treiorwg in 1841/51 with a patronymic name change (i.e David ap James).

I am also almost sure that the Tirbach Anne Davies, born c 1763, was this David's sister, her father said to be James Davies on her death cert. She was apparently unmarried.

The John James, informant of her death, is surely the same one at Treiorwg in 1841 and at Pontladis in 1851.

The "big" question remains, which David is our Esther's father?

Is he the David James at Pontladis in 1841?

I think he must be, the only other real option is one in Llangadog in 1841 [married to Ruth and his father David James died in 1812] who certainly has no known links to the Triorwg James clan.

Is the Pontladis David the son of the Triorwg David?

I can find no baptisms in the Llandeilofawr register for any of the following;

I wonder if they are all sons of the Triorwg David James?

That would explain why Esther was at Treclai and Llwynyryn in 1841/51

That would explain why Anne Davies was with William at Tirbach in 1841

The only pre 1791 local parish marriage I have found for a David James is in 1783, he would have been age 22, to Ruth David in Llangadog, but this more likely to be for a David James of Llangadog who died in 1812, we have his will

Reverting to the patronymic Davies/David, there are no likely David David marriages in the locality but there are the following David Davies entries which are date possible;

I think the next priority is to find the will of David James age 90 in Ll/Fawr in 1851, but no sign on the Carmarthenshire will index up to 1857.
No burial seen for him in the Llandeilofawr register post 1851 either.

up

The children of William and Esther Davies

up

 

Mary

Our first sighting of Mary isn't until the 1881 census below, on this is based her birth year of 1853, she was born at Tirbach;

They ran the White Hart  in Llandeilo. There was a fire at the pub on 14 Sept 1894, tragically her husband John and 4 children died, they were William, Rees, Henry and Joseph

Mary and her 2 daughters, Mary and Elizabeth, survived the fire. It seems that her son Thomas also escaped, perhaps because he had stayed with his Edwards grand parents that night helping out on their farm called Llwynybedw, near Llandeilo.

The 4 boys and their father are all buried at Tabernacle chapel, Ffairfach, next to  grandparents William /Esther. The grave is situated at right front in line with rear of chapel.

For a fuller description  of the White Hart tragedy see White Hart

The inquest report in the Carmarthen Journal of 21 September is very detailed.

Gareth M says there was another daughter of John/Mary Edwards, called Edleanor [?] or Elinor, aged 6 months at the time of the fire, she died in infancy, but not in the fire it seems. A baby is also mentioned in the inquest report as staying with friends that night.
Now learn (Jan 2006) from his direct descendant that the baby was called David John;
"My Grandfather was John Samuel Edwards, grandson of John Edwards landlord of the White Hart. His father was the youngest of the Edwards sons - David John - you refer to him in your research as being a nameless baby who was thought to have died in infancy. My Grandfather often spoke of the fire and that his father - (David John) was a small baby who was staying with a relative away from the pub that fateful night. He is buried alongside my grandfather in the cemetery here in Abertillery, Blaenau Gwent. Both David and his son John were local successful businessmen who owned ironmongery stores in the Gwent valleys. My Grandfather also had a sister Gwen ( Born I believe in 1907) and a brother Samuel who died at birth."

One of the surviving daughters, Mary Anne,  married a Rees Jones, I now hear from his niece Anne, her father being his younger brother, that  their father was William Jones of Bridge St, Llandilo. Mary Anne and Rees married in 1914 at Llandrindod Wells, his father set him up in business as a corn/flour store and carter in Ammanford. Rees and Mary Anne went to live at the Bridgend Inn at Pontamman with Mary Edwards who was the licencee. Anne remembers visiting there as a child.
Kathleen Mary was their only child, born 1915. They eventually left the Inn and had a shop/off licence at Talbot Rd, Ammanford, Mary Edwards was still alive then.
Kathleen went to Cardiff University to study French,  and in 1941, at Llandilo church, she married John Maldwyn Griffiths from Porth, Gla, on his embarkment leave.He died in action in Italy very soon after that.
When Mary Edwards died, Rees and Mary Anne went to New Malden, Surrey, to live with Kathleen. In 1945 Kathleen married an American GI [a Captain in Intelligence] friend from her student days in Paris, he was Edward Kilenyi. She went with him to live in New York, then Mary Anne and Rees went to Canada to join her sister [Elizabeth ?] at Victoria, British Columbia
After a few years Kathleen and Eddy moved to Tallahasse, [in 1953] Florida, Mary Anne and Rees joined them there.

Rees died in 1961 aged 88, and Kathleen in 1986.

The niece says that her family never spoke of Tom Edwards, she had understood that ALL the boys had died in the fire, and that Mary Anne had TWO sisters, one in Victoria, BC and the other in Abertillery, Gwent.

Anne sent me cuttings of Eddy Kilenyi's obituary, he died in Jan 2000 age 89. He was an internationally  known pianist renowned for his interpretations of the music of Franz Liszt, he made more than 100 recordings. His father was the Hungarian born composer Edward Kilenyi.

Gareth M wrote to Mary Anne Jones in Florida [she died in 1977 age 96], who gave a detailed account of the tragedy, her brother Thomas was not mentioned at all in her letter, presumably because he was not there that night.

Marys Edwards's  son, Thomas, became a builder in GCG, went bankrupt in 1912 with a deficit of £3262 and ran off to British Columbia, left his wife behind, she was a school mistress.
See below under John Davies for the full story of the bankruptcy etc. Also see  White Hart

John Edwards' parents and family are shown below;

 

John, born c 1859, see separate page

 

William

We have a promissory note dated 9 Aug 1910, John Davies (his brother) of Coffee Tavern, Cwmgors borrowed £250 from William Davies of Glanddu, Gwynfe, Llangadock

1901 census at Glanddu Farm, Llangadock.

On the 1891 census it is a completely different family at Glanddu farm.

Jonathan Davies and Lisa 'Tirford' Davies

As confirmed by the 1901 census entry, they were brother and sister, he [Jonathan] is said to have owned Glanddu Farm, Gwynfe, nr Trapp. He was married to Sarah Ann, had 3 daughters who were Eira, Leonora and Nancy.
Jonathan  died around 1940 after which his widow Sarah and the girls went to live at the smaller of 2 cottages of Ynysybont (near Pontnewydd and Sbaen and Twrci on the A 4069 Road).  Leonora was a pupil  at Llandovery Secondary School to which she travelled by daily bus.  She'd  lost a leg as a pre-school youngster before Ysgol Gwynfe by a (horse drawn)  mowing machine. It might be that Eira joined the WAAF.

Sarah remarried after Jonathan's death, he is buried in a chapel at nearby Trapp.[GM]

Lisa lived at Tirford farm nr Llanyfelach, Swansea, unmarried?, family lore said  she left everything to ' the gwas'!

 

Elizabeth

Shown with parents at Tirbach on 1871 census, age 8, born Tirbach c 1863.

Possible sighting for her, although wrong [but next door] birth parish shown, on 1881 census index, age 18 maid [born Llangadog] at Pandy, Llanddeusant with a David/Eliz Roderick couple.

More likely this ;

She married Daniel Davies c 1889. They owned the Woollen Factory at Pwllywrach,GCG.

He died in 1903 and she in 1925. Elizabeth's photo on file

Elizabeth is the great grandmother of Gareth M .

Their children were;

Benjamin, unmarried.

William, unmarried.

Elizabeth Mary, married Aaron Evans, had a son, Daniel .

Hettie Margaret, married John William Pedrick [GM] two children

 

James

James' photograph on file.

The 1881 Carms census index has following entries

On 1891 census

Also on 1892 Electoral Rolls at 9 Tonna Rd, Maesteg

On 1901 census at 9 Tonna Rd. Maesteg

Gareth Morgan's mam says her great uncle James lived in Caerau [nr Maesteg ], had 3 daughters; dau Winifrid married Grifith, had son Cledwyn; also dau Edith married ? , had son Gareth; and dau Ethel married ?.

Reference the Caerau connection; from my mam's family mementoes I have a funeral remembrance card for a William Davies, husband of Rachel Davies, of 111 Caerau Rd ,Caerau, died 22.9.1916, aged 42 [1874], buried Llangain, Carms ....... but I can't see what the actual connection  was

Also two Xmas card photographs of same little girls, written on reverse;

- From all at 10 Cymmer Rd,Caerau.....Gwen[or Ewan?]Hopkin.

- To Mrs J Davies....Gweuddint Mary Catherine, 10 Cymmer Rd,Caerau.

These names to not tie up to the daughters of James, as we know them, perhaps g/daughters?

 

Henry

He was not with his parents on the 1881 census in Bettws.

Probable sighting on the 1881 indexed census for Carms, in Llannon parish

As only one of right age born Llandilo on Wales index this looks like him.

Probable sighting on 1891 census for Maesteg.

GM's mam thinks her great uncle Henry died c start of WW2 in the Pontardulais area

We have a promissory note dated 22 Nov 1896 for £60 borrowed by Henry Davies from his father William Davies, witness Mary Edwards [Henry's sister ].
On back is note "Interest paid up to this date Nov 26 1899 from his son Henry Davies sined Eliza Davis", presumably his sister as their father William was with her in GCG then.

Also we have a formal letter dated 1912 from a Mr Williams of Llandeilo to a Mr Harris of Swansea, headed "re Henry Davies-re Maesteg property", refers to Henry selling a Maesteg property for £195 but the outstanding mortgage was £225, he paid off £160 and apparently gave the purchaser [a Mrs Edwards ??] a 2nd mortgage [over what isn't clear].

 

Dafydd

Searched 1881 Carms census index for him but as his age is unknown it is a problem.
On the assumption that he was born between 1853 and 1859 [gap in known children] there are the following two entries which might be him but perhaps not.
He could already have crossed the county line into Glamorgan of course.

This entry links quite well with the 1901 census entry below.

Gareth M's mam confirms Dafydd was another brother to John and Elizabeth, and he is certainly mentioned in his father's will.

He married, wife ?, had daughters Margaret and Esther, sons Llyn [committed suicide ?] and Phillip.

There is this possibility, given the 1881 entry above, and that the children's names bear some similarity to the above note, and of course his siblings names (Mary, John, William, Esther, Elizabeth).
1901 census at Jersey Rd, 141 (no place stated)  -  [Abergwynfi is near Caerau]

Esther married Ben Garnon, they lived in Maesteg and had two dau, Pearl and Prue, their Xmas card photo in file with " .... from Esther and Ben Garnon"address 4 Ferriers Row?, Maesteg on back.

 

Esther [Jones]

Esther Jones was the adopted dau of William/Esther, mentioned as such in his will.

She was a witness at the wedding of her sister Elizabeth.

She married a Samuel Jones. My mam says this Samuel Jones was an uncle of Llew Jones [Maggie Tirbach's first husband]

Lived in Hay on Wye before returning to GCG, had two daughters; Linda and Gertie.

Who were her natural parents? What was the connection ? Why was she adopted ?

We have a copy of her probable birth entry;

 

up

John Davies 1859

up

 

 

Have his birth cert, born 15 Oct 1859 at Tyrbach.

Glen Davies says that before marriage John was a manservant at Cwrt y Bariwns farm, on the Gwryd .

Not clear exactly when he became a colliery worker but certainly by 1881.

Married on 29 May 1880 at St Peter's Church, Llanguicke, John Davies 21, bachelor, father William Davies, farmer,
to Margaret Davies 24 , father John Davies, labourer.
Both residing at Cwm Gorse.
The witnesses were a David Davies and Mary Davies who were presumably the people at Glynceirch on 1881 census [ David Davies 54, woodman, Llfwr and Mary Davies, serv,um ,24, hsekeeper, Llansadwrn]

Have now established that the likely link to Glynceirch is that David's wife Eliza was Margaret's aunt [another dau of William/'Elizabeth Davies of Parkside, Llansadwrn.]

In June 1880 it is assumed they lived briefly at Glynceirch, Llandeilo which was their son William's birthplace...this is on the road NE out of Llandeilo town towards Rhosmaen.

From papers held it is clear that the 1891 house was  either 34 or 38 Gors St., Cwmgors.

1901 census in Cwmgorse.

There is a license dated 28 Dec 1915 between the Llwynrhidie estate [signed by Benjamin Evans] referring to the original lease dated 25 May 1888 and allowing John Davies of 34 Gors St to assign the lease of 38 Gors St. to his son William Davies

Also held is a receipt for £25 dated 5th Oct 1888, John Davies having paid  "'the last enstalment for two houses on part of Llwynrhidia " to Morgan Walter.
Also a receipt dated 26 May 1888 for £4/4/- for ' cost of lease being Evans to Davies'.

There are receipts for work done by Tom Edwards, his nephew, for John Davies of Coffee Tavern, Cwmgors in 1906/7 totalling £51/11/8, looks like the building of a house, presumably the third house of the three at Tirbach Terrace.

Have two large photographs of John/Margaret together

He was a deacon at Tabernacle, Cwmgors.

"John Davies Coffee Tavern" mentioned on page 76 in " Annibynwyr Gwaencaegurwen " by L Hughes in 1942, in context of Tabernacle as one of the 8 new diacons appointed in 1907.

Have John's wage slip for 5 weeks ending Dec 28 1889, number 795 issued by North's Navigation Collieries [1889] Limited.
Odd thing is, someone tells me that North Navigation didn't operate in Cwmgors, nearest point probably Maesteg which is an interesting thought, especially in view of the Maesteg/Caerau connnection through his brothers Henry and James.
He actually received £12/5/7 after deductions of Stores and Sharpening 10d, Coal 4/-, Rent £1/12/6, School fund and Doctor 5/-,
Cash advanced £7/10/-.
Total earned was £21/17/11, units [hours ?] worked totalled 138 with rate varying between 1/-3d and 4/-6d.

In a tax return for 1915 he showed his mining wages as £70 pa against which someone has written ' satisfactory' in red!

He also shows income of £19pa from the two tenants of Woodlands, Colbren Rd [Williams and Rees Jones ? ], £10 from the adjoining yard, and £29 from the Cwmgors houses, tenants 34 Gors St self, 36 Gors St, E. Davies [surely not his uncle Enock who would have been 86 if still alive? Unless it was his widowed sister, Elizabeth?], and 38 Gors St, W'm Davies [son]].

There follows the story of John Davies's involvement with his nephew Tom Edwards, son of his sister Mary. This is included, not to disparage Tom Edwards in any way, but as a simple historical record of a significant event in the Tirbach family life.

Documents held;

## The bank David Jones & co, Llandovery [branch in Llandeilo] taken over by Lloyds in 1909, known as the Bank of the Black Ox and founded by the drover David Jones in 1756.

The Story in brief

The bankruptcy;

Tom Edwards was a builder, had a yard in Colbren Rd, GCG. Contracted to build the Methodist Chapel,GCG, left uncompleted after dispute with trustees, sued each other, arbitration process abandoned after Tom ran off to British Columbia, and his bankruptcy in which trustees claimed £637. Also built the Police Station,GCG. Also 4 uncompleted dwelling houses in GCG, deeds held by bankers, only valued at £3 in assets. John Davies referred to as 'the landlord of his yard and workshop', John claimed £422 in the bankruptcy. Tom's wife claimed the furniture and household effects as partly given to her on marriage by friends and family, and bought from her own earnings as a school mistress, 'which duties she resumed when her husband absconded'.

John's involvement;

He and Mary signed the guarantee in Tom's favour, latter obviously under pressure from bank. John said that they had only intended to guarantee £100 each, and then only until monies due in from the County Council were received by the bank. John said the guarantee was signed 'in blank' , [not clear how this dispute was resolved], and that the prior receipt of the council money should have cancelled it anyway. However they did pay up the £400. Apparently John borrowed £250 from his brother William to do so. Also a quibble about the bank's denial they had other security,when they had an IOU for £40 from a W. Jones.

Letter to John from Official Receiver in May 1912 states ' the offer referred to is receiving attention'. I wonder if this was to buy one or more of the uncompleted houses and were these the two houses in Lower Colbren Rd which John did become the owner of, which seem separate from the adjoining builders yard, which was sublet to the Council in 1915 [lease held].

However, letter in 1910 refers to John's purchase of Woodlands from a D Rees.

In a Tax schedule in 1915 John lists two tenants in Woodlands, rent £10 and £9 pa, as well as the council's £10 pa for the yard. He paid ground rent of £2 pa for all 3 properties to 'Williams Vicar of Colbren'.

Have John's death cert, he died 31 Oct 1922 age 63, colliery underground repairer, at 34 Gors St, from pernicious anaemia, informant grandson Johnny Davies.

Headstone at Hen Garmel shows him of "Tirbach Cwmgors,GCG" says he was 63 at death on 31 Oct 1922.

"Profwch a gwelwch mor dda yw yr Arglwydd
  Gwyn eifyd y gwr a ymddiriedd ynddo"

 

 

Schedule of the estate of the late Mr John Davies, No 34 Gorse Street, Cwmgorse, GCG,
coalminer who died on the 31st October 1922 aged 63 years in the parish of Llanguicke.

 

Assets

Two L/D houses as agreed with District Valuer

Portion of rent

Clothes

Furniture

Watch and chain 

Total assets

 

£600

£1-13-0

£4

£35

£2

£642-13-0

 

Schedule of debts

William Davies Boot and shoe maker

Morgan Brothers, builder for repairs.

Benjamin Jones Mason Cwmgorse for repairs

Thomas Howells, Tailor Cwmgorse

W H Jones, Painter GCG

T Williams, grocer,Cwmgors

.......

........

Sub total

 

£10-11-0

£7-9-0

£14-5-4

£15-18-0

£13-11-0

£12-19-2

£2-8-9

£0-15-0

£77-17-3

Cash lent by William Davies, Gorse St Cwmgorse

Funeral expenses.

£60

£25
Total liabilities

£162 17 3

My Comments

 

Margaret Davies

The wife of John Davies, she was referred to as Mamgu White by the younger members of the family to distinguish [by the colour of her hair ?] between the two mamgus, when both living at Tirbach terrace.

Have her birth cert., born 5 May 1854 at Velindre, Llansadwrn [nr Pwllyfan]

See separate pages for details of the Llansadwrn Davies family

Glen Davies says that before marriage she was a maid at Nantygasseg Farm Cwmgors, and of course her husband John was a servant on Cwrt y Bariwns farm not far off on the Gwryd.

She died the year before I was born but, judging by her photographs, she was a very severe lady, and looks quite the Victorian matriarch!
I have the impression that she liked " to rule the roost" at Tirbach terrace !

She was a qualified midwife [have her 1905 certificate], she appeared not to start until she was aged 46 !

We have her delivery register showing the detail of the 475 babies [including the seven children from Will to Mick by own daughter in law, Sarah].
She delivered in the area between 1906, and 1927.
The names from the register are listed on Margaret Davies

I am advised that there was training of midwives which started formally in the late 1860s, before that it was 'on the job' training if that.
It was the 1902 Act that recognized the training and Licenced them, but it was still possible to obtain a licence if you could show 'experience', until registration of midwives started around 1924. The Boards of Guardians in different Unions throughout the land had different standards which didn`t alway require even a trained midwife to be employed for the needy as the Union doctor was generally responsible for their care. To keep the costs down for the Union it was often the case that the doctor would pay for the midwife or whoever he trusted out of his midwifery fee, usually about 10 shillings of which the midwife took half.

The Register has now [ Nov 2000] been lodged with Swansea Archives

She also ran a 'Coffee Tavern' in the front parlour at 34 Gors St for some time, certainly c 1910.

And let the room to Lloyds Bank later on !

She also took in 'strays'...local orphans, usually older children.

And she put up visiting preachers to Tabernacle for the weekend.

My mam remembered being taken by Mamgu White as a child to visit relatives [ in Merthyr area?] Glen also tells a story of Mamgu White walking all the way to Maesteg, knitting a shawl on the way, and bringing back a baby in it to look after, he also thinks this baby may have been David John Isaac who was shown at Llywnrhidiau on 1891 census aged 5 , Mam also says Margaret brought him up. He was her sister Anne's son, see her notes.

Mam also thought Mamgu White was a Deacon at Tabernacle chapel, Cwmgors [Aneurin Hughes doubts this].
She is shown as "Chwaer hynaf yr Eglwys" in Tabernacle's 'Cyfarfod Cyhoeddus' in 1938.
Also gets a mention in the Tabernacle context on p72 of " Annibynwyr Gwaencaegurwen " by L Hughes in 1942

Have a London and Lancashire Insce Co policy in her name dated 1938 covering 34 Gorse St for £500 and 36 Gorse St for £350, premium £0-12/-9d pa.

Mamgu White is buried in the family plot at Hen Garmel, the headstone inscription mistakenly says she died on 28 Sept 1939 aged 85.

"Ar hyn a allodd hon, hi ai gwnaeth "

It would appear from the letters of condolences held that she had certainly died by Saturday 23rd September, in fact the doctor's Notice to Informant date could be taken as the 22nd or 28th The death cert not held.

To cap it all, have a letter from D R James, solicitors to Daniel Jones, one of Margaret's executors, in 1963, querying whether death date of 28th Sept was correct, matter had come up re sale of house frontages for road widening.

Will of Margaret Davies.

"This is the last WILL and Testament of me Margaret Davies of 34 Gorse Street Cwmgorse GCG in the county of Glamorgan widow.
I hereby appoint Daniel Jones of Gorse Street Cwmgorse GCG colliery examiner and my grandchildren Johnny Davies of Cwmnanthopkin Farm aforesaid and Rees Davies of Glannant Gelligron Rhydyfro to be the Executors and trustees of this my Will.
I give and bequeath all my estate and effects whether real or personal unto the children of my deceased son William in equal shares absolutely."

Margaret [her + mark] Davies
Dated 26th March 1934.
Witnesses to the mark of Margaret Davies...... Rachel Doris Davies of 34 Gorse St and David Morgan of Brynheulog,GCG.

###############################################

My comments

1. Interesting that she only made her mark since the midwife's register held is assumed to have been written out by her personally, a possible explanation is that she was too frail at age 80 to write her signature.

2.Also have with the will a separate undated and unsigned or named scrap of paper assumed to refer to Margaret's wishes, stating which grandchild should have various pictures, china and furniture. Also assumed this written as dictated by her "on her death bed ". up

 

Timothy David

up

 

 

Shown as John Davies's father on latter's marriage cert in 1840. Timothy was a smith.

John then living at Green Meadow, Llansadwrn. This John is the father of Margaret Davies [Mamgu White].

On the IGI, the only possible entry in period that looks like John's baptism entry is in Cynwil Gaeo on 28 May1819; John David son of Timothy David and Jane [name of John's dau too]

Have searched Cynwil Gaeo register for the children's baptisms, from 1813 onwards only as many prior pages illegible, there will be others as married in 1800.

I am confused by the apparent "double baptism" for our John, surely the 1819 one didn't die !
Perhaps baptised twice ? His census age varies between 1819/21.

They were married in 1800 in Conwil Caio, Timothy DAVID, Blacksmith to Jane JAMES .

The following IGI entry looks likely for his baptism, Llansadwrn and Cayo are adjacent parishes;

On the Llansadrwn register the entry, dated 30 Jan 1778, is only just legible, seems to say "Timothy  David William".

The Cayo register is largely illegible c 1780.

Found burial entry in 1834 in Cayo, Timothy David, smith,age 57, Penmine.

This ties in the above children's baptisms and provides his approx birth year of 1777.

On the 1841 census for Cynwil Caio there is only one likely entry for a widowed Jane;

Is this our widowed Jane? Age Ok if she was married c age 20=1780 birth.

The 1841 children probably not hers given her age, who was Thomas age 49 ?

But on the 1851 census there are two Efelfachs [one Erefelfach], at one of them is a David Davies and wife Jane age 77,  is she the one there in 1841?

 

up

John Davies, Llansadwrn, 1819/21

up

 

 

John Davies is the father of Margaret Davies [Mamgu White].

Probable baptism entry on 28 May 1819 at Penymine, Cynwil Gaeo , John David son of Timothy and Jane David .

Another baptism also seen in 1825, same parents etc , in Cynwil Gaeo, confusing.

Married on 22 Aug 1840 at Llansadwrn church , John Davies, full age, labourer, of Green Meadow, father Timothy Davies, smith, to Susanna Davies, full age, of Parkside, Llansadrwn, father William Davies, farmer, witnesses William and David Price.

Census entries;

John Davies died on 25 March 1897, aged 78, Susannah on 17 March 1913 age 92.

Gravestone seen in Llansadwrn church cemetery.

Susannah Davies

She was born c 1823 in Llansadwrn parish.

She married John Davies in 1840, she was then living at Parkside, Llansadwrn.

Her parents were William , a farmer, and Elizabeth Davies.

The following census entries relate to them;

At Parkside on 1851 census was a Williams family.

Was husband William dead despite Elizabeth's apparent married status ?

Wonder if niece Mary Thomas was her brother's dau, Thomas might therefore be her maiden name ?

The g/son William is clearly the first child of dau Susannah/John Davies who was born c 1840 and not with parents in 1851.

The witnesses at Margaret/John Davies's wedding in 1880 were David and Mary Davies. Also, Margaret's son William was born at Glynceirch, Llandeilo and a David Davies of Glynceirch was the informant on the birth cert.

In view of christian name and parish of wife Eliza's birth the connection seemed likely to be that Margaret's mother Susannah had a sister called Eliza.

And indeed there is a baptism entry for Elizabeth dau of William/Elizabeth Davies, farmer, of Parkside on 28.6.26 which makes the link fairly certain and Eliza is anyway another dau of this couple not shown on the above censuses.

The children of John and Susannah

William

The son Philip, born 1872 , died on 23/11/1899, aged 27yrs, Battalion Grenadier died in Belmont, South Africa.
Buried with parents in Llansadwrn Church.

 

Jane

 

John

On 1881 census index, at Penrallt, Llandeilofawr [next to Old Red Lion, near Cwmifor.

In 1891 at Penrallt

In 1901 at Penrallt

See under John Hicks 1788, then Rees/Jonathan,  for dialogue re this John Davies's daughter Susannah's marriage to a John Higgs

 

Elisa

Aneurin Hughes says that Lisa and his mother Sarah were very friendly and visited often.
Seems Lisa lived in a house in Llandeilo town , she was " a good cook and during the weekly market in Llandeilo the farmers would flock to her for their dinners and tea".

Unfortunately we have no knowledge of her married name.

 

Margaret,

Born 1854, see notes on husband's page.

 

Mary

William Davies, the son of John/Margaret [Mamgu White] was born there in 1880.

Also probably her as a witness, with the same David Davies, at Margaret's wedding in Cwmgors in 1880.
Have now established that the link to Glynceirch is that David's wife Eliza was probably Margaret's aunt [Eliza was another dau of William/Elizabeth Davies of Parkside, Llansadwrn.] so David would have been Mary's great uncle by marriage, I think

 

Timothy

On the 23rd of Feb, 1892 he married Mary Williams (b, Caio, in about 1865.) at Merthyr Tydfil Registry Office.
They lived at 36, Gethin Street, Abercanaid where on 21st of January 1894 their daughter Elizabeth was born.
In approx 1896, their second daughter Gwenllian was born.
In 1915 they moved to 35, Nightingale street with their daughter Elizabeth who was then married to their lodger Arthur Price.
The latter moved to Gwaun Cae Gurwen in 1922-  five children, one being Selwyn.

It was at Abercanaid that Timothy died in November 1918 age 55yrs, colliery shotsman.
His wife died in April, 1919 aged 52yrs. Both buried at Ffrwd cemetery, grave F8/31.

 

Anne

Sister of Margaret, mother of David John Isaac who was brought up by Margaret, he was on the 1891 census with Margaret at Llwynrhidiau, Cwmgors.
I don't know the story behind this but see Margaret's notes re the walk to Maesteg to collect DJ.

Anne presumably married a Mr Isaac, widowed and remarried, my mam thought so.

Have photographs of Anne and son D J Isaac

 

Elinor

 

Sarah

Aneurin [Hughes] says his parents, Ben and Sarah, married in Llangadog.

Also that his mother visited the annual 'Flannel Fair' in Llandeilo to buy material to make shirts for husband Ben to wear underground, also visited sister Lisa who lived there

Ben died in 1930 and Sarah in 1964

They lived at Llwyn Rd Cwmgors [same house that Bessie Tirbach lived in afterwards].

 

up

William Davies 1880

up

 

 

William was the only child of John and Margaret Davies, he was born on 9th June 1880 at Glynceirch, Llandeilo.
That was the home of David Davies who I believe was the widower of Margaret's aunt Eliza.

The birth cert shows mother as Margaret Davies, formerly Davies, and father as William (!!) Davies, farm labourer, should have said John, of course........
I have queried with Registrar and seen actual entry which does say William.
The informant was the same David DAVIES, occupier of Glynceirch, Llandeilofawr, who presumably misunderstood the question re the father, or is there another explanation ??

1901 census at Cwmgorse.

Said to be a "Colliery Examiner below ground" on dau Rae's birth cert in 1918.

He married Sarah Jones on the 9th December 1899 at Pontardawe Registry Office. He was aged 21[?], coalminer, father John Davies, coalminer; Sarah was 22, father Rees Jones, master mason.Witnesses were John Davies and Rees Jones.

We have a license dated 1915 from the Llwynrhidiau estate permittting the transfer from John Davies of 34 Gors St to son William of 38 Gors St all that land contained in the lease dated 1888.

Death cert held, died 2 Nov 1930 at 38 Gors St, age 50, colliery underground examiner, cause was 'carcinoma pyloric end stomach', informant son Johnny.

Buried in family plot at Hen Garmel ;

" Mi a ymdrechais ymdrech deg "

Have letter of condolence to his wife dated 5th Nov 1930 from Manager and chief clerk of Cwmgorse Colliery.  See Cwmgors & Gwauncaegurwen

Also a letter William and Sarah wrote to 'Dear sisters' c 1917/18.

Newspaper cutting of his death on file;

"Cwmgors mourns the loss of a highly respected inhabitant, in the person of Mr Wm Davies, Gorse Street.
Deceased leaves a widow and many children with whom the deepest sympathy is felt in their bereavement.
The late Mr Davies,who was about 50 years of age, suffered a most trying illness.
He was the son of the late Mr John Davies[Tirbach] and Mrs Davies who resides in the vicinity.
He was a man of fine character, and was noted for his wide reading.
He had been employed as a fireman at the Cwmgorse Colliery.
His mortal remains were interred at Carmel cemetery on Thursday."

 

See separate page for their children

 

Sarah Jones

Born 4th September 1878 at Ivy Bush, Glan Duar, Llanybyther.
Her parents were Rees and Elizabeth Jones.

Before her marriage in 1899 Sarah worked at Howells' shop opposite 34 Gors St.

My mam said Mamgu rarely went out of the house, not even to chapel.

She was called Sal by siblings.

Aneurin Hughes makes comment in letter sending me a copy of Mamgu's photograph  " there was a lady, if ever there was one".

See separate page for Jones family

Have on file two letters Mamgu wrote to my mam  in 1956, the second one was after she visited us in Shoreditch.  In it she says " Tell Allan Uncle Ike has bought Auntie Het a budgie and Auntie bought Uncle Ike a cuckoo clock instead of a television....so there is plenty of talking here!"  
[Perhaps you had to have known them both to really see the funny side of this !]

Have a London and Lancashire Insce co policy in her name dated 1938 covering 38 Gorse St for £500, 59 Coelbren Rd GCG for £500 and shed at rear of latter, £nil. Premium £0-15/-pa.

We have a register showing that Mamgu White, who was a qualified midwife, actually delivered Mamgu of 7 of her children from Will to Mick.

Buried in family plot at Hen Garmel, she died on the 13 May 1960 aged 81

"Y llygad am gwelodd, nim gwel mwyach
  Dy lygad sydd arnaf, ac nid ydwyf"

Have receipt dated 17 May 1960 from DA Morgan for funeral £31/5/0. Panelled coffin £25 with silvered fittings, best quality shroud £1 extra.
Son Rees dealt with the estate, after total funeral costs £34/5/0 there was £14/5/-outstanding after £20 insurance policy, his scrap of paper [Mother's Funeral Expenses] shows calculation of £1/8/6 each to share out [10 siblings].

 

VALUATION of the estate of the late Mr William Davies, 38 Gorse St Cwmgorse, colliery examiner,
who died 22 Nov 1930 age 30. [dated 23 Jan 1931.]

Assets

Debts

Comments

.

up

The children of William and Sarah Davies

up

 

 

Johnny  (1900 - 1968)

Bessie  (1901 - 1981)

Rees  (1904 - 1972)

Will  (1906 - 1978)

Maggie  (1908 - 1979) 

Dai  (1910 - 1966)

Hetty (1913 - 1987)

Sue  (1914 -1982)

Rae  (1918 - 1995)

Mick (1919 - 1983)

 

up

Rees Jones (2) 1849

up

 

 

This Rees Jones was the father of Sarah Jones who married William Davies of the Cwmgors Tirbach family.

He was born c 1849 in the parish of Llanfiangel, or Llanwenog, in Cardiganshire, I have not yet found the correct St Caths index entry for his birth.

His father was another Rees Jones, and given the preponderance of Joneses in the area, it is not surprising that I found two similarly aged sets of Rees Jones, father and son, in Llanwenog at the same time and separating them has been something of a problem. I think I am on the right line now however!

The key is that one father is a farmer [marriage cert] and the other a mason, plus his Ffynonrhydderch marriage abode. His birth parish could be Llanfiangel or Llanwenog as census details are contradictory.

I will refer to our son Rees as Rees Jones 2 the first sighting of him is;

1851 census in district of Llanwenog, CGN, at Tanyfron Ty Isaf, [nr Ffynonrhydderch]

He was first married on 24 Oct 1877 at Aberduar Chapel [Baptist], Llanybyther.
Rees Jones age 28, mason, of Ffynonrytherch , Llanwenog, father Rees Jones, farmer, to Elizabeth Evans age 26, of Ivy Bush Llanybyther, father Benjamin Evans, accountant.Witnesses John Evans and David Griffiths. This John Evans probably her brother

A vital factor to tie in to Ffynonrhydderch is the following entry for Rees Jones 2's parents;

Have failed to find a Rees Jones 2 born Llanfiangel on the 1861 and 1871 census in Llanwenog.

But possibly him, but born Llanwenog, on the 1871 census at Coedlanfach, age not exact.

Have not established any  family link to this Daniel Jones.

Picked him up again after his marriage;

The house Ivy Bush is in Glanduar, possibly once a separate hamlet, on the southern outskirts of Llanybydder town.
It may have been just opposite Aberduar chapel although I could see no house of that name when I visited in 1995.

Ivy Bush is placed on the 1841 census as follows; Red Lion, Glanduar shop, Carpenters Arms, Penybont, Ivy Bush, ? Water St, Penygraig, Abernant.

They were still in Llanybyther in Dec 1887 when first wife died.

It is  his second wife Elizabeth shown on the 1891 census below.
They married on April 5th 1890 by banns at Llanelly Parish Church. Rees Jones, mason, age 38, living at Wern/Llanelly, father Rees Jones deceased, labourer.
Elizabeth Collin, spinster, age 27, living at 25 Marble Hall Road, Llanelly, father Joseph Collin, potter-man  
Witnesses Joseph and Alice Collin.
If latter was her mother/sister then that links in to one of her own children called Alice. 
Can't see her parents on the 1881 census in the area.

1891 census in Gorseinon, Gla, Registration District Llanelly, Sub Reg district Loughor , R12/4491 ,
Folio 71, P 57, Civil Parish Loughor , Ecc Parish St Davids

Now obvious from his absence above that son Rees aged 9 is the visitor with his grandmother Esther Jones at Ffynonrhydderch in Llanwenog.

So this family's movements can be summarised as follows;

Where were they between 1887 and 1890, where did Rees meet second wife who whilst born in Llanelly was in Pontardulais in 1881 ?
It now seems possible that the strong Llwynyreos connection stems from a time when in 1887 Rees had very young children on his hands without a wife, he would have surely leant on his family, his elderly parents at Ffynonrhydderch, with his uncle at nearby Llwynyreos ?

1901 census.

Have the birth cert for Edith Maud , dau of Rees Jones and Elizabeth formerly Collins, born in August 1901 at Station Row, Garnant, Bettws RD [Llandebie sub dist, Llfwr].

Searched for Rees Jones's death in Glanamman Tabernacle Burial register but no sign in period 1900/1945.
Now have his death certificate, he died on 15 May 1920 at 38 Gorse St, Cwmgorse [the home of his daughter, Sarah].
He was aged 71, a stonemason [journeyman]. Informant was son Benjamin.

At Aberduar Chapel cemetery, Llanybydder is a gravestone with the following inscriptions, I assume that that of Rees Jones, the son, who died in Salonika in WWI is a memorial only, I also wonder about the father's entry who died in Cwmgors, Llangiwg.
There is a photograph of the headstone under Jones 2 in the Picture Gallery

" Er cof am Elizabeth gwraig Rees Jones Ivy Bush, Glanduar.
  Bu farw Rhagfyr14eg 1887 yn 36 oed.
  Gwyliwch am hynn am na wyddoch na'r dydd na'r awr y daw mab y dyn."

"Hefyd am y dywededig Rees Jones, bu farw Mai 15ed, 1920 yn 72 oed."

"Hefyd ei mab Rees Jones. Bu farw yn Salonika, Hydref 6ed 1918 yn 37 oed."

 

Elizabeth Evans

The first wife of Rees Jones 2.

Born c 1852 in Llanybyther.

Her name shown as Eliza on dau Sarah's birth cert in 1878.

From her marriage cert in 1877, she was then aged 26, her father was Benjamin Evans, accountant, of Ivy Bush, Llanybyther.

Her mother's name was Rachel.

Have her death cert, she died 14 Dec 1887 at Ivy Bush, Glanduar, Llanybyther, aged 36. Informant was her brother Evan Evans, Emporium, Llanybyther.

 

Elizabeth Collins

The second wife of Rees Jones (2)

I have little information about Elizabeth Collins's background (apart from the census birth place of Llanelly), and a probable 1881 census sighting of her as Lizzie Collins, a lodger, in Pontardulais.

I  have her death cert, she died on 19 March 1903 at Station Rd, Garnant, aged 40.

 

The children of Rees Jones and first wife Elizabeth [Evans]

 

Sarah

Born 1878, see husband William Davies's page.

 

Benjamin

Born c 1880 at Ivy Bush.

He married Martha Jane Thomas in 1901.
Their children were Charley, Johnny [1907-1988], David Edward [1905-1983], Lizzie Mary [1902?-1982].

He died in Feb 1943.

Likely to be him shown on John Davies's estate in 1922 as being owed £14/5/4 for work done as a mason on the Cwmgors properties.
His own address on the receipt is shown as Penybryniau,Cwmgorse.

He was a co trustee of the will of William Davies, his brother in law who died in 1930, Benjamin's address on bank passbook in 1931 was 23 Colbren Square GCG.

He is included in the wedding photograph of his sister Hettie in 1919, see Jones 2 in Picture Gallery.

 

Rees

Born 1882 according to the family bible (and 1901 census)

Private Rees Jones 203373 was killed in action very late in the 1914/18 war, he was with the 11th Welch, A co, 4th platoon, attached to 67th Bn., Machine Gun Corps (Inf), fighting with the Salonica Forces.

See also Cwmgors & Gwauncaegurwen for full details

 

Hettie

Born in 1884 according to family bible.

She married John Jones [Penhow] in 1919, lived in Llwynhen road, Cwmgors, see Jones 2 in the Picture Gallery for a photograph..

 

Rachel (Ray)

Born in 1886 at Ivy Bush, Llanybydder.

She married ? Amer in London, had a dairy business with husband in World's End, Chelsea.
Widowed for many years, came back to Cwmgors and ran a small general shop near the Abernant Inn.

She died in Cwmgors in 1971.

 

The children of Rees Jones and second wife Elizabeth [Collins]

 

Alice

Born 1890.
I understand she lived in Toronto, previously in service in London, married late in life
Betty Radley in Seattle tells me - Alice was working in London and use to stay with us, I remember her so well, I used to go with her to Llanybyther on holiday and she came and stayed with us in Seattle in 1948.  I don't know when she passed away but I remember it was quite sudden, and I do believe her married name was Hall 

David Joseph

Born 1892.
Family bible says " D.J.Jones and Mary Jane Jones were married [no date]" . Emigrated to Australia , Glen says that his son Benjamin showed up in Cwmgors as an Australian soldier about 1941, remembers seeing him in full regalia at Mamgu's. He was nicknamed 'Buck', possibly because he made his living breaking in horses before the army.

 

William Henry [Billy]

Born 1893.
Family bible says "W.H.Jones and Margaret White were married 8th October 1919 at St Barnabas Ch. London"
I'm not at all sure but think she was called ' Auntie Peg' by my mam.
There is a photo of her and Auntie Ray Amer dated 1918 on file.
May have lived in Wallington, Surrey.
I am told "they had one son named Richard, who was known as Dick. He was killed in the war. He was air crew.
They had lived in London but Will and Peggy retired to Tenby, I have seen his name on the R.A.F. War Memorial at  Runnymede."
There is a photograph of Dick in uniform in the photographs gallery

 

Margaret Jane

Born 1895.
Family bible says "M.J. Jones and Griffith Jones married 19th November 1920 ".  
Lived in Abernant Rd, Cwmgors, she was widowed and remarried a widower.
I believe there were 8 children of 2 (3?) marriages including Katie Llewellyn who died in May 1990 aged 72, her husband, John Llewellyn died in 1996, they had four children.

 

Thomas

Born 1897.
Family bible says "Thomas and James Jones buried on the 6th April 1901"

 

[Hannah] Mary

Born 1898.
Known by my mam as 'Auntie Mary Canada'.
On file is a Xmas Card from 273 Wildwood Ave, Victoria , BC, signed May and addressed to Sarah [her half sister]. This includes an undated letter, refers to having been in Canada for 5 years, she was living with Lizzie and Rhys.
Also refers to Kathleen and Eddy who visit every summer, apparently from New York. Says Lizzie's children are all married, except Mervyn her eldest son.
Asks about "'DR and Bessie and the boys, and Maggie and dau Elizabeth "who is a big girl now" This dates the letter post 1938, but by the omissions of other children, probably pre 1940. Also asks " does Auntie Esther live in GCG now? And how are Hettie and Will [Factory]? "
I am informed that Mary was either adopted or raised by family in Sunderland, England and went to Canada with a or to a family in Toronto, she married late in life and her married name was Swinscoe and lived in Willowdale Toronto. 

 

James

Born 1899.
Family bible says "Thomas and James Jones buried on the 6th April 1901"

 

Edith Maud

Born 1901 in Garnant.
Married Jack ?, she was many years in a nursing home in the Swansea area, died in 2001 just before her 100th birthday.

 

Trevor

Know nothing at all about him, my mam simply thought she remembered the name as a child of her grandfather's second marriage.
In fact I now wonder whether he existed at all since he is the only one not shown on the family bible or the 1901 census.

 

..............end of children of Rees Jones and Elizabeth Collins..............

 

Benjamin [2] Evans

up

 

 

 

The father of Elizabeth Evans, first wife of Rees Jones (2).

Born c 1810 in Llanybyther, failed to find his baptism in Llanybyther records in period 1808/17

Married on 15 May 1839, he was living at Penhewl, a schoolmaster, father Benjamin Evans, Labourer, to Rachel Evans.

From the census returns his occupations varied from schoolmaster to asst overseer [Poor House ?] with a spot of census enumerating on the side !

They are both buried at Aberduar Chapel cemetery in Llanybydder, the headstone inscription says;.

"Er cof am Benjamin Evans, Ivy-Bush Glanduar.
Bu farw 1af (?) m 1878 yn 69 (?) oed.
 Hefyd am Rachel ei wraig bu farw Ebrill 22ain 1895 yn 87."

Alongside this was the headstone relating to their daughter Sarah;

"Coffadwriaeth (in memory) am Sarah Evans merch Benjamin a Rachel Evans o'r Ivy Bush, Glanduar,
 yr hon a fu farw Ionawr 23, 1863 yn 21 oed.
 Coffadwriaeth y cyfaiwn sydd fendigedig."

Here are the 1881 census entries for each of the  known children of Benjamin Evans (2) and Rachel Evans - and their families;

Evan

New Elvet House, Llanbyther

 

Mary

Railway Cot. Llanybyther.

David

Troedyrhiw, Llanybyther.

John

3 Station Row, Llanybyther.

Elizabeth

See under Rees Jones (2)

 

.................end of children of Benjamin Evans (2) and Rachel Evans .................

 

Rachel Evans, wife of Benjamin Evans (2)

On her marriage in Llanwenog in1839 she was living at Tynyfron and on the cert shown as Rachel Evans with her father as 'Evan Milers', a mason.

Were parents unmarried, and mother called Evans ? Or more likely, is the patronymic system at work, with father named Evan?

And, on the 1841 census for Llanwenog the entry for Tynyfron is;

No sign there of an Evan Milers .

Interestingly, also on the Llanwenog marriage register, also in 1839, is Mary Evans, also of Tynyfron, father James Evans, she married Griffith Rees.

And in 1866 an Eliza Miles, of Highmead, daughter of Evan Miles, Mason married a William Betts.

 

Benjamin Evans (1)

up

 

 

The father of Benjain Evans (2) and grandfather of Rees Jones's wife Elizabeth.

On the Llanybyther records is a marriage entry for Benjamin Evans and Hannah Jenkins, both of this parish, on 27 May 1808, his fits in with Benjamin 2's birth date of c 1810.

Benjamin 2's marriage entry in 1839 shows him living at Penhewl [Presumably Llanwenog ? or was it Llanybyther ??] and his father is Benjamin Evans, a labourer.

No Benjamin (1) on the Llanybyther 1841 census [apart from the 'wrong one' who was at Glanduar Mill.], or in Llanwenog, although one or two Hannah s alone , but ........

No sign of a Penhewl in either parish in 1841, there is a Penheol in Llanybyther with a David Evans family in!

In " History of Llansawel " by Fred Price there are some Parish register extracts and one in 1793 says " Agreed with Ben Evans, Llanybyther to mend church steeple, £7.7." -   is this ours or the 'other Benjamin', the miller ?

up

Rees Jones (1)  1813/16

up

 

 

Shown on son Rees (2)'s  marriage cert in 1877, a farmer -  son then living at Ffynonrhydderch, Llanwenog.

This Rees now referred to as Rees Jones (1).

According to the censuses/death age he was born c 1813/16 in Bangor Teifi parish.

In the Bangor Teifi records is a baptism on 21 Oct 1813 for a Rees to David/Prisila Jones,  farmer of Uron. [See below]

Marriage in Llandysul on 22 Dec 1840, Rees Jones, of full age, bachelor, labourer, living at Nantygwydau, father David Jones, farmer;
To Esther Rees, minor, spinster, of Rhiwfele, father Rees James, farmer.
By banns, both made their mark. Witnesses were Rees Evans, Lanvaughan and Evan Evans, Babegwyn.

At above Nantygwydau on 1841 Llandysul census [Glandysilved hamlet] were;

No obvious connection  to Rees Jones although people often worked on farms of relatives.

1841 census Llanfihangel ar Arth, CMN, Cathinog hundred

Have birth cert for dau Sarah, born 8 Feb 1841 at Rhiwfelen, Llandysul, Rees/Esther not there 2 months later, Rhiwfelen had Esther's probable mother Sarah there though.

1851 census Tanyfron Ty Isaf, [nr Ffynonrhydderch]

At dau Ester's birth in 1859 they were already living at Blaenwayn, Llanwenog.

1861 census at Blaenwaun Isaf?,

1871 census at Ffynonrhydderch

Which son is g/son David's father?  - Not Rees 2 (b1849) .

Can't be David's by Elizabeth [she was born 1855], he was aged c 30 by 1875, possibly his son by previous marriage ?
That might explain why he was still with grandparents in 1881 below
Unless the son of a dau who married a Jones of course  -   Possibly Margaret.

1881 census at Ffynonrhydderch
Rees Jones 67, farmer 20 a [Cgn Bangor], Esther 61 [Llandysul], David 17 g/son [Llanwenog].

1891 census at Ffynonrhydderch
Esther Jones, widow, 70, farmer [Llandysul], Rees [Jones] 9, visitor [Llanybyther].

Now clear that this Rees aged 9 was Esther's grandson,  the son of Rees 2, who was not with his father in Gorseinon.

Burial of Rees Jones(1)  in Llanwenog on 10 Sept 1889 age 76 [1813] at Ffynonrhydderch.

 

Esther Rees, wife of Rees Jones (1)

Census entries show Esther as born in Llandysul in c 1820, her maiden surname as Rees taken from dau Sarah and Ester's birth certs.

From marriage cert her father was Rees JAMES, farmer , a late example of patronymics at work?
She then lived at Rhiwfele [see below] in Llandysul parish.

No baptism entry in the Llandysul register c 1820 but on the IGI is a bapt for Esther JAMES to Rees James and Sarah REES on 13 Nov 1820 at Llandysul, Horeb Independent chapel.
This entry also found on the Horeb Chapel register itself, Esther, born 10 Oct 1820, dau of Rees James and Sarah JAMES, at Llaine ? in Llandysul.
Also entries for  a David in 1822 and Martha in 1824, the places varying from Blanllaire? to Blanllan in Llandysul.

There is an index marriage entry in Llandysul on 31 May 1815 for Rees James and Sarah Rees, not on P/reg though which defeats me .

On the 1841 Llandysul census [Borthin hamlet] are the following entries;

This Sarah  must be Esther's mother, at least the house name says yes, she was  either widowed or Rees James was not at home that night.
She is shown as a widow on the 1851 census below.
Interesting she gives  her name as Sarah Rees, it was the "old Welsh way" for women to keep their own names after marriage, but more so in North Wales.
Her age suggests a birth date c 1792-1796. The / after her name, before the children, puts a little doubt on whether they were hers as /  was meant to mean a separate household in same building.
But a John Rees died in 1897, aged 61 [1836], son of Rees and Sarah Rees of Rhiwfelen, right age for the John aged 4 in 1841 above.

Sarah, dau of Esther, was born at Rhiwfelen in Feb 1841, her mother lived there when married to Rees Jones in Dec 1840.

Next entry on 1841 census;

Looks likely that this James/Esther Rees  are the parents of Sarah Rees.  
Latter's dau also called Esther.

Also a Debora aged 12 with Sarah's dau Esther in 1841.

 

Have details of James's  will in 1843.

James Rees of Fronfelen, Llandysul,farmer.

Left following bequests;

  • £4 each to sons Rees [eldest], Joshua, David.
  • Also £4 to dau Deborah, plus clock and feather bed.
  • All goods, cattles, chattels left to his wife [unnamed] and son Thomas, after her death Thomas was the residual legatee.

Both James and Thomas could sign their names.

Winesses ; Enoch Jones of ?, John Griffiths of Blaenberthyn.

Effects under £50.

He died the same day he made the will, i.e 30 Oct 1843.

 

Why didn't assumed dau Sarah get anything, she likely had her "share" when she was married in 1815 ?

Her sister Deborah presumably did get a share because she had apparently stayed at home to look after her parents.

1851 census, Llandysul, at Rhiwfelen;

Spinster here probably refers to the work of spinning (?) 

1861 census Llandysul, Rhiwfilen,

The following burial entries [in adjoining graves] seen in Bethel, Capel Dewi[Methodist],  

Another son for this couple given the marriage details ?
1851 census at Rhiwfelen;

On Capel Dewi marriage registers is the following entry;

Burial of Esther Jones  in Llanwenog on 7 Sept 1896 age 76 [1820] at Llwynyreos.

David and Prisila Jones

up

 

 

Now certain they are the parents of Rees Jones (1) [of Blaenywaun] who was the informant at David Jones's death in 1858

The only baptism  in period  on the IGI in Bangor is in 1813, Rees to David/Prisila Jones, farmer of Uron.
Now also seen in P/register  21 Oct 1813 but house name is of course Vron, or Fron.  
No alternative bapt for Rees  found in Bangor Teifi registers.
We know from marriage entry that Rees's father was a David Jones , farmer.

Also a Hannah shown in 1816 baptised by same couple.
There are also bapts in 1805 and 1811 in Bangor Teifi for a Margaret and a David, both to David John and Priscilla, of Troerhiwyrhwch.  
The name Priscilla is not very common place.

By 1835 another couple baptising at Fron, they were Thomas and Rachel Jones.        

 No marriage entry found for them in Bangor Teifi in period 1804-1812, critical gaps in  Prs and Bts before that period unfortunately..

1841 census Llandysul, Capel Ddewi hamlet, at place opposite Rhyg????

1851 census  place called Rhydgeyron

1861 census, Llandysul, at Rhydygeyron

Hannah's birth parish indicates that she is indeed the dau of David/Priscilla.

There is also a marriage entry in 1847 in Llandysul, David Davies to ANNE Jones of Rhydygeiron, dau of David Jones, lab. Looks like them despite the Anne/Hannah  name variation 

Burial entries seen in Capel Dewi for David Davies in 1886 aged 72, Hannah in 1902 age 85 and dau Margaret in 1878 age 27.

Now have death cert for David Jones, died age 87, a farmer, on 3 May 1858 at Rhydceiron, from "debility and old age", informant Rees Jones of Blanywaun, Llanwenog, but still no trace of a burial entry for either of them.  
Also have Prisila's death cert, on 10 May 1845 at Rhydceyron, age 67, from consumption, informant a David Evans [?].

No baptisms seen on the IGI in Bangor Teifi for a David Jones, the name John not  yet searched.
But no extant Prs or Bts for Bangor Teifi for likely birth date of 1771.  

up

 

The children of Rees (1) and Esther Jones and the Llywnyreos connection

up

 

 

Llwynyreos farm is a place in Llanwenog parish [in CGN], but not too far from Llanybyther town [in CMN], that my mam and others, associated with her mother's Jones family.
It is a farm they were taken to on visits as children.

My initial confusion was that, although Esther Jones died there in 1896, I still could not see exactly why relatives went there from as far away as Cwmgors and Swansea  in the 1920s?

Obviously, the link to Ffynonrhydderch is clear enough.

Despite the fact that Llwynyreos is very near to Dorset Cottage, see below, Ffynonrhydderch seems not to have been renamed Llwynyreos as both shown on 1891 census with David/Eliz Jones at Llwynyreos and Esther Jones at Ffynonrhydderch.

But Llwynyreos is not shown as such on the 1881 census the exact order of listing is;

I now wonder whether the Pengraig of 1881 became the Llwynereos of 1891 ?

Interesting to see Llwynyreos existed in 1865,  I failed to spot it in 1871 as well as 1881. It has to be the same place as presumably near to Llanvaughan .  

On the Llanwenog marriage Prs index is the marriage entry;

The answer to my "what is the connection to Llwynyreos? " question seems to be simply that Sarah Jones, my grandmother, was a niece of the David Jones who was at Llwynyreos in 1891 and a first cousin to "Mary Llwynyreos" who was the latter's daughter.
However, a better theory has latterly emerged, see Rees 2 (1849) 

I have still not got the "complete Jones family " picture as clear cut as I would like but the following details of the children of Rees (1) and Esther Jones goes some way towards that ideal !

Children of Rees (1) and Esther Jones

Unknown child?

This first child may not exist at all, and if he/she does his name could be Thomas or Evan !

There are two, apparently related, problems here.

The first is the grandson David ages 6/17 on the 1871/81 censuses with his grandparents, Rees/Esther Jones. Was he the son of a so far unseen son of Rees/Esther, or of one of their daughters, Sarah and Margaret, who could very easily have married a Jones in this area!

Can't be son David's by Elizabeth [she wasn't born until 1855], David was aged c 30 by time Esther was 20 in 1875, possibly his son by previous marriage ?
That might explain why he was still with grandparents in 1881 ?

Unless g/son David is the son of a daughter who married a Jones of course !

The second question, is this g/son David Jones the David of the David / Mary couple who lived at Cefnrhuddlan ucha and whose children were;

The only David /Mary marriage c 1884 on Llanwenog list is;

I don't know how Henbast Llantisiliogogo might come into it but if not father Thomas Jones's place, and David was only working there for someone else, would he have been called a farmer
[ as opposed to serv etc] ?

On 1881 Census Index at Cefnrhuddlan ucha ,

There is a possible Thomas Jones on the 1881 census index at

This Thomas would have been born c 1838, he was also born in Llandysul [as was Sarah in c 1841] which fits in very well with "an older son" theory, Esther would have been age 17 then. She was born in Llandysul and their marriage might turn up there yet.

Just to make this really difficult ......  another possible father for the 1871 grandson David [and a candidate for the unseen son theory] is an Evan Jones;

See below under Margaret Jones for another Pantygravel reference !

This is very confusing ..................apart from the fact there was a number 1 and a number 2 Pantygravel on the 1881 census, i.e two separate houses.

It is extraordinary that his David's age matches the David grandson of Rees/Esther, age 6 in 1871 at Ffynonrhydderch.

No marriage for an Evan Jones/Margaret in period on Llanwenog list.

Of course, all might be revealed if I find Rees and Esther on the 1841 census, probably in Llandysul.

 

Rees (2)

See separate entry

 

Sarah

On IGI no baptism for her c 1840 anywhere.

No marriage for her on Llanwenog list 1859/68.

 

Margaret

On IGI no baptism for her c 1843 anywhere.

On Llanwenog list in 1868 is the marriage of Margaret Jones [single, no age] dau of Rees Jones, lab, living at Pantygravel to a Thomas Rees.

This could be her despite fact that parents never at Pantygravel on censuses, she may have just worked there .

Her children's names and her age strongly suggest that this is the dau of Rees/Esther who married a Thomas Rees.

 

Hannah

My mam thought her g/father Rees had a sister Hannah who at sometime lived in St Helens Rd /Ave Swansea.
Sal Lloyd refers to visiting her Aunt Hannah in St Helen's Rd.
These two comments persuade me that this is the right Hannah.

Hannah had 4 children who Sal Lloyd details as....

Still don't know this Hannah's married name. No possible marriage on Llanwenog list any period.

Is this son Rhys the Rhys Davies of Maesteg at Mari Llwynyreos's funeral, he was a cousin?

Are Hettie and Phil Rees the Mr/Mrs Rees from Sketty listed as cousins at funeral too ?

 

Esther

Likely burial entry on Llanwenog list at Bryncledlyn, 1946 age 87 [1860], age agrees with census.

Sal Lloyd of Swansea remembers visiting her mother's [Hannah] aunt Hettie at Bryncledlyn, Drefach, presumably this Esther is she.

 

David

Burial entry Llanwenog in 1915, age 70 , at Llwynyreos.

1881 census Llanwenog, at Pengraig [ between Pwllbilwg and Tytelp]

No marriage entry on Llanwenog list c 1875 when she would have been c 20.

David was age c 30 on marriage, had he been married before ?
Not on Llanwenog list in period.

This latter Mary must be the " Mari Llwynyreos " who was born in 1887 by her age at death in 1953 , see her funeral report below.

 

Children of David Jones and Elizabeth of Llwynyreos;

Esther

Keith Lewin [Hicks connection] provided local information as follows;

Hettie [Esther], sister of Marie Llwynyreos, married a John Davies

They had 5 children as follows;

KL also says Sarah Ann Davies had another son called John Ronald [1931/42] but father's name unknown.

Mary

Born c 1887 in Llanwenog.

She is the " Mari Llwynyreos " born 1887 [by age at death in 1953] husband David Jones [born 1889 by age at death in 1974] - her 1953 funeral report extract is shown below .

It seems that her parents only had the two daughters, no sons, and that Mary, who confusingly, married a David Jones , inherited the Llwynyreos farm, despite the fact Hettie, her sister, was 11 years older. Perhaps because her father died in 1915 [mother 1933] and Mari still lived at home?

Have her marriage cert, on 14 May 1910, at Lampeter RO, she was 23, father David Jones, mason, of Llwynyreos.
Husband David was 21, an underground labourer, father John Jones, gen lab., living at Pantyronen, Llanwenog.

I have extended her children as extracted from her funeral report plus other details provided by KL from local contacts.

Also on the Llanwenog burial list in 1930 is Elizabeth Jones, Llwynyreos age 2 hours, was she the daughter of Mari who would have been age 43,or one of her daughters ?

Their other children;

 

Funeral report of Mari Llwynyreos in 1953

Her husband was David Jones, the children there were Elsie, Dewi, Haulwen.

Also listed as married daughters were;

Listed as cousins were;

Also several nephews and nieces [?] listed including Sal Lloyd who I work out to be a 1R*1st cousin of dec'd.

Flowers donations included  ' from Sarah, Hetty [my mamgu Sarah Davies/Jones and aunt Hettie Thomas] and all at Cwmgors.'

##################

Keith Lewin,who lives in Drefach, says the Llwynyreos family were members of Bethel Chapel, Drefach, and members were usually buried in Llanwenog Churchyard or Rhydybont Chapel cemetery, Llanybyther.

Presumably this is why so many baptisms/marriages are not on the Llanwenog church register.

 

up