THE O'NEILL'S OF IRELAND

THE O'NEILL'S OF IRELAND

According to Eileen Rooney nee O'Neill,

Margaret O'Neill, the grandmother of her father Patrick O’Neill, actually lived in Carrickmacross Co Monaghan before she had her illegitimate son John O'Neill and did not marry. There was never any mention in the family of cousins or uncles on the O'Neill side of the family - only on the Fox side of the family. This of course was through Annie Fox who married John her one and only son, it would seem, in Grangetown in the year 1887. No records of Margaret O'Neill and her early years with her son John, my great grandfather, have ever been traced to date- and even the attempt to trace her early years in Carrickmacross as a child have only been tantalisingly nebulous.

O'NEILL STREET CARRICKMACROSS

There is a street in Carrickmacross named after the O'Neill's who lived there and owned a Hotel on the street in the last century. Margaret may have had a link with this family but records are scarce before the year 1864 - the official year of compulsory registration - and no Margaret O'Neill is found in the baptismal register of the main church in Carrickmacross - St Joseph's. - or indeed of a John O'Neill, who I believe was born in 1864. A search of the surrounding area of Carrickmacross conducted by the Monaghan registry office also revealed no trace of a John O'Neill born c 1864.

The present parish priest of St Joseph's, Vincent Connolly, has been excellent in trying to establish some kind of information from the records which start in 1858 - too late for the baptism of Margaret O'Neill who was probably born about 1848 or so - at the height of the famine - assuming that Margaret was 16 years old.

He names a Margaret O'Neill daughter of James O'Neill and Mary Veenon who was born in 1858 - obviously too young to be the Margaret - as John was born in 1864 - but the name itself might be a family reminder after an earlier mother Margaret with James O'Neill another brother and perhaps an uncle of the Margaret O'Neill our ancestor.

He also suggests that there may be a link with the O’Neill Hoteliers on Main Street and suggests that she may have come from the hinterland of Carrickmacross and names the parishes of Donaghmoyne, Innishkeen, Killaney, and Magherasloone? as possible research alternatives.

So we have partly established that Margaret O'Neill was our earliest O'Neill ancestor apart from her father- name unknown. Dates as follows -

C 1836 Birth of Margaret O'Neill in Carrickmacross?

worked out from burial records and age given.

1864 Birth of John O'Neill - place unknown in Ireland - see 1891 census

From this year until 1885 we have no knowledge of his or his mother's whereabouts. No census records of 1871 or 1881 reveal their presence in the area to date. Where were they for twenty years? Sheltered by a family? In Ireland? Gribbin's? There is a Margaret O Neile aged 13 in Feversham St Middlesbrough working as a servant for the Campbell family in 1861 - who could be the one - if she returned to Ireland to give birth to John - three years later , in 1864 at the age of 16...which would suggest that there was a link with the Campbells ...must check the records again for places of birth and other O'Neile's in the area of Feversham Street....and get a complete picture of the household.

1861 Census Records for 56 Lwr Feversham St Mbro

Thomas/Francis? Campbell Head m 34 Lab Ironwrks Ireland

Ann Campbell Wife m 32 Ireland

Margaret O Neile Srvnt 13 Mbro

Jeremiah Sullivan Brdr u 27 Lab Ironwrks Ireland

Michael Murray Brdr u 13 Lab Ironwrks Ireland

There ought to be a birth record of this Margaret O Neile if Margaret is her name - (writing is almost illegible)- for 1848 .....see Mbro Register Office. Two streets away in Lower East Street, a Bridget O Neil aged 50 is living with her son Darby 19 and Mary Ann aged 17 - and John Ryan aged 24 and a Catherine McGeever aged 60 - all born in Ireland . So Margaret could be part of this family - a possible sister to Mary Anne - earning her living - elsewhere ..which still does not rule her out completely ..if she does become pregnant. In the adjacent street where the alleys run back to back lies Garbutt Street - where a Patrick Gibam ? resides aged 30 ? Speculation heightens ...A relation perhaps to the Patrick Gribbin who would be only 10 years old in 1861. The first child of John O Neill was called Patrick. (after his mentor )The second child of John O' Neill and Annie Fox was named Mary Anne...( after his Aunt ? )The third child was called Margaret. (after his mother )

In 12 Suffield Street , almost an extension of Feversham Street, lives Patrick O Neal aged 21 with Catherine O Neal aged 29 with their children Catherine and Elizabeth O Neal (twins ) aged 1 year. Are these relatives of Margaret ?

In Newcastle Row lives John Goodfellow and wife Bridget Casey - and family - later to work in Witton Park closely linked with Mary Fox and family.

Also my great great grandfather Patrick Degnan with his wife Mary ) Russell ( and my gt grandmother Margaret Degnan aged 5.

John Maloy and wife Ann, a John Quinn aged 23 lodger, and in 2 Danby Street lives William Calligan aged 30 from Levismony in Co Cork and wife Ann from Woodford Galway. and great great uncle Lawrence Trainer a lodger age 36 in the Gittens family in 5 Temperance St.

In 8 Nile St there's a moulder called John O' Neill aged 21 who was born in Newcastle, married to a Mary Helen aged 20 born in Stockton, with a child called Henry age 1 , and another moulder called Charles O Neill aged 27 in Princess Street .

Back to the centre of town in filthy Garbutt Street we find the McQuilquins and Tommy Traynor in Cottages nearby .Catherine Ford Svt aged 24 in 5 North St for the Crisp family - Butchers. Owen McAffrey and wife Sabina. John Callaghan with John Russell lodger aged 19 in Lower Commercial St and Patrick Fitzgerald aged 26 and Ellen aged 23 and Edmund Russell 54 and Ellen 50 in Ebeneezer Cottages in the same area.In Cochrane's Cottages lives a William Ford 31 from Derbyshire and his wife Elizabeth 30

One can see the need for a database - 1861 seems a interesting source for old ancestors.

Incidentally, in 1871, Bridget O Neil aged 55 of East Street comes from Mayo.

Archives Records - Reel 441 - RG9 3685 & 3686 & 3688

1885

Electoral Records show another John O'Neill of 33 Bessemer Street – whom I originally presumed was my great grandfather John as he appeared to be living 3 doors from his future bride Annie Fox. However there was always a slight doubt about this - as his address on the marriage certificate is given as 15 Laing Street – the home of the Gribbin family. This John O’Neill is actually the father of a Rose born in 33 Bessemer Street and Helen O’Neill married to a Mary Ann Browne. [Confirmed by Kathryn Duggan of Whitley Bay who researched the same name and obtained a birth certificate for Rose in August 1883 – copy on desktop.

1885 Birth of Mary Deborah Gribbin - Mgr Carson’s mother

July 18 daughter of Patrick Gribbin & Elizabeth (Stinson)

July 28 Baptism by Henry Walker in St Peter’s South Bank

Godparents: John O’Neill and Hannah Farrell

A very interesting discovery as it appears to confirm Auntie Eileen’s suggestion that the Carson’s were linked in some way to Eileen’s grandfather and my gt grandfather John. It would seem highly likely that this John living in the same house in 1887 was living there also in 1885 - even though the baptism took place in St Peter’s - a mile away – perhaps it was a holiday break for J J Nolan. It was high summer. So the reason that John O’Neill is possibly not on the early Electoral Registers was because he was a boarder in 15 Laing Street and not the house representative – who was Patrick Gribbin. But why John was chosen to be godfather to a Gribbin child is the mystery. Was he a relative? He must have been a very close friend – or his family was.

1887 MARRIAGE OF JOHN O'NEILL TO ANNIE FOX

Oct 29th John O'Neill aged 23 of 15 Laing Street

Married Annie Fox aged 21 of 39 Bessemer Street

His father's name claimed to be John deceased

Her father's name Peter.

Witnesses - Thomas Flanagan and Annie Tierney

15 Laing St is registered to a Patrick Gribbin at this time - so this suggests some connection between John O'Neill and the Gribbin family. But the 1891 census reveals no trace of a person called O'Neill living there. Full particulars later pages: -

1887

Dec 12 Birth of Katy Gribbin - a teacher in St Mary's Grangetown

dau of Patrick and Elizabeth Gribbin

Dec 17 Baptised in St Mary's RC Grangetown

Godparents - Edward Stinton and Annie O'Neill

Annie wife of John O’Neill is now a godmother to another Gribbin child – Is this because she is John’s wife? invited to be godmother because of the family name connection.

Could this be Annie Fox married only 6 weeks? .... I think so.... another link with the Gribbin family of 15 Laing Street. It would seem so.

The Thwaites Connection

Dec 18 Birth of Mary Helen Twaites godmother to Mgt Purcell in 1902

dau of Charles Twaites and Helen [O'Neill]

Dec 31 Baptised in St Mary’s married Frank Dunn in Feb 1911 aged 24

Godparents - John O'Neill and Bridget Fox

This seems like a family swap - where the Foxes and the O’Neill’s agree to be godparents for different families nearby - Bridget must be the Bridget who has just come over to Annie's wedding and to replace her as housekeeper in 39 Bessemer St - standing in with her new brother-in-law - whilst Annie does the same two weeks earlier for her new husband. But this leaves us with a Helen O' Neill who could be a relative - not a sister surely.this would ruin the previous speculation. Who is she and living next door to the Fox family in 41 Bessemer St? Was she just a family friend and neighbour who just happened to live next door - with the same family surname as John O'Neill living at 33. Is this just coincidence?

Check the Census for Helen's place of birth !!!

1891 Census Records - 41 Bessemer St Grangetown

Charles Thwaites Head 50 Boiler Fireman Roydon Norfolk b.1841

Ellen Thwaite Wife 46 nee O’Neill Ireland b.1845

Arthur Son 20 Labourer Bangalore East Indies b.1871

Catherine Dau 16 Dressmaker's App Wellington East Indies b.1875

Florence Dau 13 Scholar Grimstone Norfolk b.1878

Augustine Son 11 Scholar Grimstone Norfolk b.1880

Henry Son 8 Scholar Grangetown b.1883

Mary Ellen Dau 4 Grangetown b.1887

The Baptism of Henry Thwaites in 1883 should also reveal more godparents - records might be available in St Peter's South Bank as Canon Nolan was P.P. for Grangetown in the early days. The 1881 Census Records of Charles and Ellen Thwaites in Grimstone Norfolk might reveal a County place of birth for Ellen Thwaites formerly O'Neill - who is too old to be a sister to John but the ideal age to be sister to Margaret - born c 1848.

The interesting thing here is Florence. When Patrick returns to Grangetown to live in 1901- the first house he boards in is Florence’s house with his grannie Margaret O’Neill. Remember..Florence’s mother is an O’Neill to called Ellen/Helen. Is she a relative? She was born in Ireland in 1845 - Perhaps Grannie Margaret is her mother’s sister. Blood is thicker than water.

1888

Nov 10 Birth of Patrick O'Neill - [Grandad] m Mary Ellen Mannix

at 5 Bessemer St Grangetown Eston

Father John O'Neill Mother Annie O'Neill (Fox)

Steelworks Labourer

Nov 17 Baptised in St Mary's by J J Nolan

Godparents - Patrick Fox and Bridget Fox / Belinda ?

1889

Jan 3 Informant - X The mark of Annie O'Neill 5 Bessemer St

1891

Feb 18 Birth of Mary Ann O'Neill - did not survive the year

daughter of John O'Neill and Annie( Fox)

Feb 22 Baptised St Mary's by JJ Nolan

Godparents - Edward Stinson and Bridget Fox

Edward Stinson appears to be the brother of Mrs Gribbin - see census records another strong link with the Gribbin family and probably a friend of John O'Neill?

THE GRIBBIN CONNECTION

1881 Census Records for Normanby Rd South Bank

Patrick Gribbin Head mar 30 General Lab Ireland

Elizabeth Wife mar 26 Ireland

John Son 7 Mbro

Hugh Son 4 Ireland

Edward Son 2 Ireland

William Son 6mth Eston

Robert Stinson Brdr mar 25 Gen Lab Ireland

James Gorman Brdr unm 25 Gen Lab Ireland

Also since Grangetown was not built until 1882, the census records for 1891 are incorporated in the South Bank records - because they are so close.

NB There is no sign of Patrick Gribbin in 1871 Census for Charles St Linthorpe.

Here are another Gribbin family recorded in St Mary's M'bro:-

March 20th 1874 - Birth of John Leo Gribbin of North Ormesby

son of John and Elizabeth Gribbin formerly Gribbin

Godparents - John Gribben and Frances Jackson

Could they be related? This family lived 7 West Terrace and according to the census records of 1871 -John was 68 and a retired draper born in Co Down Ireland - a clue if they are related.

1891 Census Records for 15 Laing St Grangetown

Patrick Gribbin Head 40 Ireland b.1851

Elizabeth A ... Wife 37 Ireland b.1854

John Gribbin son 17 Labourer Mbro Charles St b.1874

Hugh Gribbin son 13 Scholar Ireland b.1878

Joseph Wm son 10 Scholar South Bank b.1881

EScholar Elizabeth dau 7 Scholar South Bank b.1884

Mary D dau 5 South Bank b.1886

Catherine dau 4 b 1887

Robert L son 4 m South Bank b.1890

Edward Stinson B.I.L. 28 Labourer Ireland b.1863

So here are some possible leads about the Gribbin family. We know that for a short time in about 1874 they came to Middlesbrough and had John. Patrick would be 23 Elizabeth 20. Perhaps they may show up on a census for 1871 - 3 years earlier - but that would make Elizabeth only 17-but her maiden name is Stinson....so she may be in Middlesbrough in 1871 with her Stinson family-after their emigration. However since she was born in Ireland and later returns there after having her first child, it is likely that she was probably in Ireland as a child herself. Details re birth

Feb 20th 1874 Birth of John Gribbit)in( Charles St M'bro

son of Patrick Gribbin 20 and Elizabeth Anna Stevenson )Stinson?(18

Godparents - Robert Stinson and Mary Ann Milligan

So they return to Ireland for a few years around 1877 - 80 and return to South Bank-to have Joseph in

1891 1891 Census for 56 Calthorpe St Middlesbrough

April John O'Neill Head 27 Puddler Ironworks Ireland

Anne O'Neill Wife 24 Ireland

Patrick O'Neill son 2 Patrick O Neill 2 Grangetown

No sign of Mary Ann O'Neill - so the child must have died between Feb 1890 and April

one of the reasons for moving house perhaps -from Grangetown to Middlesbrough

Dec 27 Birth of Margaret O'Neill in 17 Lawson St Middlesbrough

Father John O'Neill Mother Annie O’Neill formerly Fox

Ironworker

marries James Conway

1892

Feb 15th Informant - X Mark of John O' Neill - Father- 17 Lawson St

Mar 24th DEATH OF ANNIE O' NEILL aged 28 yrs wife of John O'Neill

Iron Worker at 17 Lawson St Middlesbrough of

Bronchial Catarrh Broncho Pneumonia asphyxia

Mar 25^th X The mark of John O' Neill Widower present at the death

17 Lawson St Middlesbrough

A very sad situation for all concerned - a new baby and toddler left motherless.The children were taken to Barley Hill Tyrone Ireland to be cared for by Annie's mother Bella Fox - wife of Peter Fox, for whom Annie had kept house for in 39 Bessemer St until her marriage in 1887. Little Patrick and baby Margaret would never see their father again.

1894 REMARRIED

Jan 11 Marriage of John O' Neill & Rose Goodman

Aged 28 Widower Aged 27 Spinster

General Labourer --------------------------

167 Cannon St Mbro* 22 Welford St Mbro

Father (John O'Neill) deceased Father Peter Goodman

Farm Labourer Shoe Maker

in St Mary's Cathedral RC Thomas McKinstrie

X The Mark of John O' Neill Margaret McKinstry

Rose Goodman - signed her own name

*167 Cannon St is the address of Peter Goodman in M'bro Directory 1887

Jan 27 Birth of John O' Neill in 22 Welford St M'bro

son of John O' Neill and Rose O'Neill neeGoodman

Baptism in St Mary's Cathedral M'bro

Godparents - James Docherty and Margaret McInstry

Half-brother to Patrick and an uncle to my dad- killed in action World War 1 Sept 25th 1915 - Eighth Battalion Seaforth Highlanders His name is inscribed on Albert Park Memorial tablets outside gate.

1895

Oct Birth of Annie O' Neill in 22 Welford St M'bro

died in Berwick - buried in Ireland

daughter of John O' Neill and Rose (Goodman)

Nov 8th Baptism in St Mary's Cathedral M'bro

Godparents - Thomas Doughty and Sara Crossin

1897

Feb 7th DEATH OF JOHN O' NEILL AT 21 Welford St M'bro

Aged 32 yrs Ironworks Labourer -from-

Acute Lobar pneumonia 4.5days JB Larke MD

Feb 8th Informant - T McInstrie Brother in law Present at death

Resident at 22 Welford St Middlesbrough

NB Who lived at 21 Welford St -the address given for place of death?

Thomas McKinstrie & Mgt Goodman seem to be living in the Goodman family home in 167 Cannon St in 1891 because they have a boy Peter born there - Cathedral Baptismal Records

NB: Rose remarries on April 18th 1901 to a Paddy Donnelly - address given as 21 Welford St, and is living in 6 Samuelson Street Newport by the year 1915

Cathedral records & War Office Records Witnesses - James Doherty and Maria McKernon or McKeown

Must check St Patricks RC for Baptisms of Donnelly 1901-1915

1903 Birth of Daniel Donnelly 14 Welford St M'bro

Feb 16th son of Patrick Donnelly and Rose Goodman

Godparents Daniel Donnelly and Mary Donnelly

marries Rose Linon 18th April 1934 in Armagh Cathedral

1900 About this time Patrick O' Neill leaves for England from Tyrone to take up work in the Ironworks owned by Bolckow & Vaughan in Grangetown, to join his uncle Michael Fox and Edward Purcell, now living in Bessemer St. He is about 12 years of age. According to Aunt Eileen, he lived with his Grannie O'Neill in Multy Sullivan's back bedroom. However......

1901 But according to the Census Records of 1901 Patrick is living in 45 Bessemer Street with his sister and his grannie aged 65..in the house of John Burt his wife Florence aged 23 who was born in Grimstone Norfolk and their daughter Mary aged 1 Grandad’s age is stated to be 13 and his sister Margaret is 9. NB The Thwaites family come from Grimstone Norfolk – and He married an Ellen O’Neill – strange isn’t it?

1908

Jan 25th Marriage of Patrick O' Neill to Mary Ellen Manix

Patrick 21 General Labourer of 40 Laing St marries

Mary Ellen Manix of 57 Bessemer St

Father John O' Neill Deceased Labourer

Father John Manix Labourer

in St Mary's RC Church Bolckow Rd Grangetown

Patrick O' Neill and Mary Ellen Manix signed

Witnesses - Edward Burt and Margaret O' Neill*

We have two choices here and two possible witnesses - either Grannie Margaret O'Neill now aged 70 She lived with Patrick and Mary Ellen until her death in c 1912 - positively disliked by Mary Ellen - .and Edward Burt aged 67 from Vaughan St OR A young Margaret O’Neill aged 16 who was born in Mbro and young Edward Burt aged 26. I prefer the young couple myself but would they have been eligible? Or was it a mixture of both??

Mar 25 Birth of John O' Neill - our dad - 29 Laing St- meningitis and deafness

April 4 Baptism in St Mary's RC Grangetown

son of Patrick O'Neill and Mary Ellen Mannix

Godparents - Margaret Lagan and Edward Burt

if you want to know more click on picture

1909

June 21st Birth of Patrick O' Neill 13 Bessemer St did not survive

son of Patrick and Mary Ellen O'Neill ( Mannix )

June 21st Baptism seriously ill

Godparents - James Conway and Anna O' Neill

1910

Oct 14th Birth of James O' Neill did not survive

son of Peter? and Mary Helen O' Neill ( Mannix )

Oct 22nd Baptism in St Mary's

Godparents-Maria Anne Traynor

Oct 29th Birth of Elizabeth Purcell marr Tim McGarrell St Peter's Scarboro'Aug 1931

daughter of Edward Purcell and Isabella Fox

Godparent - Margaret O' Neill

died Nov 27th 1968 aged 57 Gravestone near entrance

1911 Deaths of Michael Fox and Edmund Purcell

see Fox tree- both uncles of Patrick O' Neill

1912

Dec 1st Birth of William O' Neill in 82 Vaughan St did not survive

son of Patrick O' Neill and Mary Ellen Mannix

Dec 13th Baptised at St Mary's

Godparents - John Hannon and Bella Purcell

1914 WORLD WAR 1 BEGINS

Patrick O' Neill enters as Gunner in Royal Artillery

1915

July 4th Birth of Anna O' Neill in Vaughan St did not survive

daughter of Patrick O' Neill and Mary Helen Mannix

July 10th Baptised in St Mary's

Godparents - Margaret Conway previously O' Neill

1917

Sept 20th Birth of Margaret O' Neill - married John Swan

daughter of Patrick O' Neill and Mary Helen Manix

Oct 13^th Baptised in St Mary's

Godparents - Eugene Daly & Margaret Daly

1918 END OF WORLD WAR

1919

Dec 7th Birth of Winifred O' Neill - 86 Vaughan St - died in infancy

daughter of Patrick O' Neill and Mary Helen Manix

Dec 13th Baptism in St Mary's

Godparents-Mary Helen Coughlan

My mother remembers Winifred being 'laid out' in the window of the house

in Vaughan St and says she was about 3 years old or so.

1921

Oct 28th Birth of Mary O' Neill married R.Parkes Aug 5th 1940 Darlington

daughter of Patrick O' Neill and Mary Ellen Manix

Nov 21st Baptism in St Mary's

Godmother - Margaret Dooley

1924

Feb 13th Birth of Gerrard O'Neill - 86 Vaughan St - did not survive

son of Patrick O'Neill and Mary Ellen Mannix

Godparents-William Linehan & Mary Linehan

1926

Feb 10^th Birth of Eileen O'Neill - married James Rooney July 1947

daughter of Patrick and Mary O'Neill Mannix

Feb 20^th Baptism in St Mary's

Godparents - Thomas Doyle and Helen Doyle

Eileen died January 1997

1927

Dec 26th Birth of Gerald O'Neill marr Valerie Brown 1954 St John's Billingham

son of Patrick and Mary Ellen Mannix

Dec 31^st Baptism in St Mary's - Fr McEldowney

Godmother - Catherine Bennett

1928? Birth of Kevin 0' Neill - last child - did not survive

son of Patrick and Mary Ellen

1935 MARRIAGE OF JOHN O'NEILL TO WINIFRED TRAYNOR

Aug 3 in the Church of St Ethelberga Barking East London

by Fr Heenan-later to become Cardinal