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Re: Re: Help Locating Tan/Chen/陈 from Amoy/Xiamen/厦门市 1850-1900


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Posted by John (211.95.101.174) on June 24, 2007 at 09:26:59:

In Reply to: Re: Help Locating Tan/Chen/陈 from Amoy/Xiamen/厦门市 1850-1900 posted by Al Chinn on June 22, 2007 at 11:56:56:

Thanks much for the feedback. If I could ask a few followup questions:

What makes you say that Eng Djwan/Hjuan Tan means Yingchuan Chen 颍川陈? Does 颍川 sound like Eng Djwan in Minnanhua? My relatives thought that Eng Djwan Chen was a village in Fujian, but I'm guessing that the information might have gotten scrambled over the generations. Just in case, are there areas/villages in Fujian whose name sounds like Eng Djwan/Hjuan?

Would you be able to guess what my ggfather Po Duan's name is? Specifically, what character Duan might be?

Do you have any suggestions about how to locate my gggfather's tomb in Fujian?

Finally, I have a theory about my gggfather's title that I'd like to run past you.

My relatives say that my gggfather (Ing Hoe) was a successful merchant, and then bought or was awarded the title of "Tai Hak Su," meaning "Imperial Teacher." And he then adopted the five generation names, and ordered his descendants to be scholars. My grandfather, when he studied in China, apparently found my gggfather's tomb & saw the Tai Hak Su characters carved on it. [the location and characters having since been lost by my family]

I've heard that "Tai Hak Su" might sound like "Da Xue Shi" or 大学士. The problem being that Da Xue Shi is second only to prime minister, making it an unlikely title to be bought or awarded. And if my gggfather somehow did obtain such a title, he and his tomb should be famous throughout history, rather than difficult to locate.

So I've developed a new theory about my gggfather's title. My understanding is that the Yingchuan Chen came to Fujian province in three waves, or Pai 派: Nanyuan 南院派, Jiangjun 将军派, and Taifu 太傅派, the last meaning "Imperial Tutor" or somesuch. The tombstones I've seen are pretty modern replica or update tombstones, but they often have the name of the person's "Wave" carved into them, i.e. "Chen Xixi, Nanyuan Pai" (南院派). So maybe my grandfather, then a high school student who'd grown up overseas, saw Tai Fu Pai 太傅派 written on my gggfather's tombstone and mistook it for his title. But does Tai Fu Pai 太傅派 sound anything like "Tai Hak Su"? Or is there a third character other than Pai 派 that is used to designate the "Wave" someone came to Fujian in? And would that other character sound like Su in Minnanhua?

And you are right about the generation names. Everyone says my grandfather's name is a mistake. And my father and all his brothers are named Kie 基____. (Chuan, Lok, Hok, etc.).

Any help appreciated. Thanks again.



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